Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[stui magpie]

Confronting reading.

I'm personally trying to come to terms with the concept that the Isrealis have a "Safe Room" in their houses in anticipation of just these kinds of terrorist attack. It's just like, WTF?

[David]

Yep, it's a society in permanent fight-or-flight mode (as is Palestine). Kind of like America with its primary school school-shooting drills but on a bigger scale. I don't know how anyone could tolerate living in conditions like that, but I guess people have done and continue to do throughout history.

[stui magpie]

Yeah, all the school shooting prep came into my mind when i was writing that.

How people can normalise stuff that is just so off the charts for people who don't live there, it's just unreal.

[stui magpie]

Interesting read.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/midd ... index.html

[David]

So apparently "Trump derangement syndrome" is still alive and well over in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... rael-hamas

[stui magpie]

Calling Hammas smart but vicious is pretty accurate.

They planned this for 12 months and Mossad, considered the best intelligence service in the world, had NFI.

[What'sinaname]

Can't argue with that.

Similarly, you can't argue with Israel's scorched earth retaliation. If Palestine / Hamas think Israel has over-reacted, then they misjudged their opponent.

[Magpietothemax]

Can't argue with that.

Similarly, you can't argue with Israel's scorched earth retaliation. If Palestine / Hamas think Israel has over-reacted, then they misjudged their opponent.

You can definitely argue with Israel's scorched earth policy...it resembles nothing other than the policies of the Nazis who killed tens of thousands in retribution for any act of resistance against their murderous repression. The Paelstinians did not "misjudge their opponent". They declared to the world that they would resist the continued, illegal blockade of Gaza and the continued Israeli military attacks on innocent civilians over decades, resulting in a vast preponderance of Palestinian deaths compared to those of Israelis.
Right now, we see that the Israeli government is about to launch a genocidal ground war in Gaza, which will result in tens of thousands of deaths of innocent Palestinian people. But somehow, we are supposed to believe that Hamas are the terrorists!!

[think positive]

Truth.

Also the powers that be want to save face, they would be embarrassed they missed it, and probably want to end it once and for all.

Never poke a bear unless you know you can 100% end it first.

The powers that be on the other side, ie the terrorists, are his8ngbehind their own people and their prisoners.

How many people who don’t give a **** which good their neighbors pray too, are dying for ‘the cause’?

Anyone executing children and the elderly hell any citizen, and surrendering forces, should suffer, and die a slow damn death.

Idont get it, how does a human do that?

[Magpietothemax]

Truth.

Also the powers that be want to save face, they would be embarrassed they missed it, and probably want to end it once and for all.

Never poke a bear unless you know you can 100% end it first.

The powers that be on the other side, ie the terrorists, are his8ngbehind their own people and their prisoners.

How many people who don’t give a **** which good their neighbors pray too, are dying for ‘the cause’?

Anyone executing children and the elderly hell any citizen, and surrendering forces, should suffer, and die a slow $$%^%%$ death.

Idont get it, how does a human do that?

Hi TP, not quite sure what you mean by this post. Who are you referring to as those executing children and the elderly?
jIf you are referring to Hamas, you are forgetting the hundreds, rather thousands, of children and elderly the israeli government has already incinterated over the last few years in Gaza. And now, over the next few days, the Israeli government is threatening to carry out a Holocaust in Gaza. By the way, the Israeli military is using phosphorus bombs against the population in Gaza - a war crime, because it delivers agonising burns to its victims.

[swoop42]

It was a far right Zionist who assassinated one of his fellow Jews, one who just happened to be Prime Minister and one who was putting them on the path to a possible two state solution.

That is an example of the length some on the Israeli side will go to to make sure no peace process can ever be successful.

Then of course we have the other extreme side of the coin.

No one denies what Hamas done was a disgrace, a war crime and deserves reprisal (and from what I can gather a number were subsequently killed in further confrontations with the IDF) the trouble is Hamas isn't the Palestinian people as a whole just as ISIS aren't the majority of Muslims.

While the world is right to reel in horror at the though of innocent Israeli men, women and children being slaughtered at the hands of an AK-47 so to should they at the thought of multiple missiles collapsing an apartment building without a word of warning.

Sure 1 or 5 Hamas members might have been inside or a stockpile of weapons stored but how about all the dead and as I write this slowly dying innocents who have little choice where they live (children no choice) or little option but comply if Hamas come knocking.

Bringing death has become to clean and clinical for those in the west and whether it be drones or smart missiles we can kill with a push of a button and watch it all unfold in real time on the other side of the world.

That is partly why our reaction is much more visceral when death is delivered by such old fashioned dirty means like the end of a gun or knife.

It's so much more personal and unlike a bomb the shame can't be hidden beneath a mountain of twisted metal and concrete.

People should care about the civilians on both sides (I feel empathy for individual IDF members also) and when seeing a little Palestinian child clearly traumatised in the coming days, weeks and months should feel the same amount of compassion for them as they do for those on the opposite side of the conflict.

I pity and fear for the press, aid workers, doctors and nurses caught in a bad situation that's about to get worse.

[What'sinaname]

Can't argue with that.

Similarly, you can't argue with Israel's scorched earth retaliation. If Palestine / Hamas think Israel has over-reacted, then they misjudged their opponent.

You can definitely argue with Israel's scorched earth policy...it resembles nothing other than the policies of the Nazis who killed tens of thousands in retribution for any act of resistance against their murderous repression. The Paelstinians did not "misjudge their opponent". They declared to the world that they would resist the continued, illegal blockade of Gaza and the continued Israeli military attacks on innocent civilians over decades, resulting in a vast preponderance of Palestinian deaths compared to those of Israelis.
Right now, we see that the Israeli government is about to launch a genocidal ground war in Gaza, which will result in tens of thousands of deaths of innocent Palestinian people. But somehow, we are supposed to believe that Hamas are the terrorists!!

Israel is warning people to leave Northern Gaza before incursion. Hamas attacked Israel without warning.

And you think Hamas are not terrorists.

[David]

People should care about the civilians on both sides (I feel empathy for individual IDF members also) and when seeing a little Palestinian child clearly traumatised in the coming days, weeks and months should feel the same amount of compassion for them as they do for those on the opposite side of the conflict.

This is it exactly. Many people out there at the moment are saying that we should only care about the people who've died on one side and forget about those on the other. We've all heard the stories of what happened at the festival and local villages, and those of us who have a heart, who don't hate Jewish or Israeli people, feel sickened. Can we extend that natural human response to people on the other side of the security barrier dying in equally painful and cruel ways, the grief of family members, the permanently disabled and traumatised?

Already, more civilians in Gaza have been killed in the past week than Israelis, and this is just the beginning of a process that will apparently leave whoever survives out of the 2 million people who live in this territory homeless and displaced. That's something like a third of the people who fled Syria during the civil war there, and the worst of that particularly brutal conflict lasted around five years; this might happen in a matter of weeks. Remember the effects that refugee crisis had on the world economy, on migration around the world, the integration issues, the draconian border policies, the drowned children, etc.

Everybody has choices in this conflict, including foreign governments watching on, and every bit of international pressure available needs to be brought to bear on Israel to call off the ground invasion, to ensure that food, water and medical supplies are made available and that the already displaced have safe passage. This is not some natural disaster; it's a deliberate action that's being enacted right now, and that could be called off.

It's sickening to see governments like our own saying they stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel. Use this alliance for good and actually exercise some leverage, or we too have blood on our hands. And every hour and every day counts.

[David]

Israel is warning people to leave Northern Gaza before incursion.

And once they've taken that they'll do the same to people in southern Gaza. Where are they supposed to go? The Egyptian border is closed and Israeli forces have bombed it.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsf ... with-egypt

[LaurieHolden]

While there's plenty written on the history of the region, I do find the chaps over at The Rest Is History Podcast do a great job, without making their historical research a view to die on the hill for.

There's two current episodes, The Forging of Islam and Baghdad: Crossroads of the Universe which make for compelling listening.

https://open.spotify.com/show/7Cvsbcjht ... f410434a3e