Post Match. Swans thump Pies. All comments.

[lazzadesilva]

[Magpietothemax]

TBH, can hardly wait for P2016's take on this game. He is the voice of reason, and his analysis is what I need right now.

[Jezza]

Unfurling the flag is the dumbest ritual in the AFL
it was won 6 months ago
just a rubbish event.

No, that's the butthurt talking because we lost.

It's a great footy tradition.

[Boot]

I think we looked like an old side tonight, which shouldn't be too much of a surprise because statistically we are the oldest team in the competition.
Sidebottom at 34 had a shocker of a first half and was only marginally better in the 2nd Half.
Pendlebury at 36 looks slow and seems to have lost his disposal ability.
Jack Crisp 32 seems to have lost his mojo and isn't half the player he was last season. Maybe he isn't suited to playing the CHB position?
Howe 34 seemed short of a run, hopefully he will get better with that game under his belt.

Darcy Moore also looks to have lost his nojo with continuing to be too loose in defense leading to easy opposition goals.

I thought Maynard was brillent tonight with some typical strong attacking football and glorious foot passing. Other positives from tonight were Finn Macrae's brief time on ground showing that he is ready to be a regular serior player. Tom Mitchell is behind Finn Macrae in the pecking order I think based on Finn's form tonight. Darcy Cameron played well to be the best ruckman on the ground.

I think Fly McRae needs to make a statement and drop Jack Crisp for Ben Allan to get a game next week. Bring back John Noble who adds desparation to the team and has good disposal skills as a replacement for Markov (not Oleg's fault that an umpire had a brain fart and paid a free against him in the 2nd Quarter instead of giving him a deserved 50 meter penalty but Markov's not great for one vs one contests and his disposal is average at best) Reef Mcinnes in the team as a replacement for Ash Johnson, who needs to really dominate a couple of games in the VFL before being considered again. Ed Allan needs to be brought into the team to replace Sidebottom next week.

Collingwood can still recover this season to be a serious contender but they need to respond to the challenge of Saints at the G next Thursday.

[Jezza]

After tonight, there's a lot more questions than answers. Is this a blip and we'll gather momentum as the season progresses? Is our age profile catching up with us? Are we becoming the 2024 version of Geelong 2023?

A lot of these questions will be answered in time, but tonight's performance isn't something we can brush under the carpet. I wasn't overly concerned by last week but tonight was another story. Fly expected a response, and we didn't get one.

The biggest difference from tonight compared to the last two years was how slow and lethargic we looked. Never seen a team coached by Fly look so flat and slow with their spread and transition. I'd gather that was his biggest concern of the night. Have to give credit to Sydney for cutting off our ability to use the corridor and transition smoothly, but it was aided by some shocking turnovers on our behalf.

Losing Murphy indefinitely is haunting us. It's left Moore exposed one on one when he's never been that type of defender, and we lack height against big marking forwards. I can't understand why Frampton hasn't been selected. I feel sorry for Charlie Dean as you can see his potential, but he looks raw and undersized for what we need at the moment.

Ash Johnson was deplorable. Might seem harsh on him, but he was lucky to remain in the team and he showed nothing that justified the coaching staff's faith in him. At least the other forwards got on the scoreboard, albeit they were quiet themselves.

I think going into next week against St Kilda, we need Frampton down back for some size and McInnes would be Johnson's obvious replacement. We get some much needed height and we inject some more youth into the team in the form of Reef.

Disappointed that Macrae was the sub. He needs game time and it's not helping his development for him to sit on the bench for three quarters. Why "manage" our clearance king in Mitchell if you're unwilling to use his replacement to its full potential?

We set the tone early in the last two years with big wins to start off the season. You could see from early on that the team was on its way to producing something special. This year has been the opposite. It's more hope than real evidence, but I'm hoping that this is a slow burn and we'll be gaining momentum later in the season.

After tonight's performance, I'm left pondering what 2024 will deliver for us.

[Jezza]

It's been a fantastic ride these past 2 years with memories that can never be taken from us.

It was never going to last forever however and whatever undefinable team spirit that lead to miraculous victory after miraculous victory has most likely been lost or at the very least greatly reduced to that of normal levels.

In reality I'm just thankful it lasted as long as it did. It was record breaking and got us our 16th flag.

I was expecting a response tonight at home and we didn't get it. It was a worse performance than last week and by a margin IMO.

While I'm not giving up on our year after just 2 games I can't help but cast my mind back to the similarities between our 02/03 and 22/23 seasons.

Back in 02/03 we had a coach in Malthouse, who after taking over the worst team in the competition at the end of 1999 took us to successive Grand Finals in his 3rd and 4th season in charge. Fast forward to the McRae era and we have a coach who took over a 17th placed side and took them within 1pt of a GF in his first season before lifting the cup in his second.

These were both fantastic coaching performances.

Of course come 2004 our side dramatically hit the wall and we plunged to 4th last.

While we all hope that our start to the season is just a short term blip and we can avoid such a drastic slide after witnessing our first 2 games I know now that unless we get back to work and rediscover the hunger it's going to be a long season.

Good post, Swoop. We were blessed for the last two seasons. It was an amazing experience for the supporter base and the whole club.

Don't know what 2024 will bring, but so far it doesn't look promising. Guess we'll only know in time one way or another.

[lazzadesilva]

I think we looked like an old side tonight, which shouldn't be too much of a surprise because statistically we are the oldest team in the competition.
Sidebottom at 34 had a shocker of a first half and was only marginally better in the 2nd Half.
Pendlebury at 36 looks slow and seems to have lost his disposal ability.
Jack Crisp 32 seems to have lost his mojo and isn't half the player he was last season. Maybe he isn't suited to playing the CHB position?
Howe 34 seemed short of a run, hopefully he will get better with that game under his belt.

Darcy Moore also looks to have lost his nojo with continuing to be too loose in defense leading to easy opposition goals.

I thought Maynard was brillent tonight with some typical strong attacking football and glorious foot passing. Other positives from tonight were Finn Macrae's brief time on ground showing that he is ready to be a regular serior player. Tom Mitchell is behind Finn Macrae in the pecking order I think based on Finn's form tonight. Darcy Cameron played well to be the best ruckman on the ground.

I think Fly McRae needs to make a statement and drop Jack Crisp for Ben Allan to get a game next week. Bring back John Noble who adds desparation to the team and has good disposal skills as a replacement for Markov (not Oleg's fault that an umpire had a brain fart and paid a free against him in the 2nd Quarter instead of giving him a deserved 50 meter penalty but Markov's not great for one vs one contests and his disposal is average at best) Reef Mcinnes in the team as a replacement for Ash Johnson, who needs to really dominate a couple of games in the VFL before being considered again. Ed Allan needs to be brought into the team to replace Sidebottom next week.

Collingwood can still recover this season to be a serious contender.

The conundrum is whether the club can make all the changes you suggest is necessary and still be a serious contender. I don’t think they can after losing so much quality experience in Sidey and Crisp in one go.

[pietillidie]

Fair comments, all. Over to Fly and the boys. The coaches should have the info to know now whether to persist a smidge longer or call a quick pivot with haste; the team is either a few weeks behind or not; it's not something that should be a mystery to the coaching and fitness people.

One thing I am certain of is that it most definitely wasn't wise to rely on the older players in the first half of the season; them getting back to the standard let alone top form is a bonus, not a foundation for a new year. Moreover, them being there as first choices takes the responsibility off the next generation, which is the wrong mindset on entering a new year.

[Jezza]

Fly's presser

Is it fair to say it's a fairly rude awakening after the first two games?

"No, that's strong language. Let's start again with the Swans, I think their pressure overwhelmed us at times, it did. Them at their best is a great pressure team. We didn't handle that. We didn't hold it in when we needed to or clear the territory or the area when we should have too. We tried to kick going through it, rather we should have gone around it or over it. I think the reality of playing in this competition is we've played two really good teams early in the season. Haven't quite showed us the level, I don't think that's strong language but we've got a lot of improvement left in us".

Do you think there's been a common denominator in the two losses?

"Some. Aerial power in the defensive 50 has been an issue. Too many marks in those one on ones or two on twos, so we need to get to work on that. I thought tonight our turnover game was pretty poor. Where we turn the ball over, I'm not sure we've been doing that in recent time where we did; 7 goals 5 [behinds] from those turnovers in that part of the game is hard to defend. When we started to feel like we were coming and you've got the game on our terms and you go 'ohhhh, turnover, goal' in a poor spot on the ground for us through a skill error. We're allowed to make mistakes, we make many and we're ok with that but it's where we make them and how much we can defend it when we make certain mistakes and some of those were poor judgment or decision making".

On the turnovers, is it coming because you're being too casual with how you bring the ball out of defence?

"Interesting language, 'casual'. I think it's probably more trying to use the ball how the opposition is defending us. They think that they're going to over slide and defend certain parts so there's opportunities to switch the play a bit more. If you watch the ground, you can see it. There's players free everywhere on the open side so you go let's explore that but we're not maybe ready there to execute at that level that we need to. Maybe looking for it or rushing it. I don't think 'casual' is the right word but 'searching' for it".

On turnovers, guys like Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Moore and Quaynor are some of the more assured hands at the club. Did that make it even more surprising for you?

"No, it makes it more positive. How easy we can fix this stuff. This is all within our control of the things we can control. The other stuff, the Swans were just too good for us. We were going 'jeez, we've got some work to do', they just looked better than us with their transition, with their snap from offence to defence so they just looked better than us at the moment. We're confident we can get these things back on track because like you said the people making these decision making are not rookies, so it's all within our control".

The points from turnover was about 80 tonight which is double your average from last year?

"Yeah exactly, and it's where we turn the ball over though. We will put it in front of them and learn the lessons and go 'come on boys, this is it' like we did last week with some things we just fundamentally didn't do well and we got to work on that and didn't see it tonight in terms of making the same mistakes twice. Ideally, we put this in front of them and we don't make the same mistakes twice".

You won contested ball, clearances and you almost doubled Sydney for centre bounce clearances so is that a part of what you're saying that you're not that far off if you fix up turnover and etc?

"That's how we believe because we feel like we control this stuff. Again, there's some parts of our game that we really need to improve. We've got to find some personnel to help us do that. Same as last week, the numbers look okay, but there's parts of the game where you're just going okay and there's a horrific turnover and you can't defend it and it's an energy zapper. We just haven't made those turnovers in the last couple of years. We'll look at it and we'll get better. It's our only way through".

It wasn't a rude awakening as you said, but looking at GWS and Sydney it looks like they're going to be right in the mix this year and is it a timely reminder that so much is talked about the reigning premier might run the risk of standing still and other teams will take over them? Is this a good early reminder of how tight the competition and nothing can be taken for granted?

"I think we had that before we played GWS and the Swans. We were really respectful of the competition. We won three finals by less than a goal. We're not thinking we're miles ahead of anyone. That was never our language. This season starts 0-0 and we've played funnily enough two games and it's only Round 1. The reality is it's a very tough competition and we need to keep improving ourselves and the first couple of games are a great example of that".

You used the word 'personnel' before, do you expect to make some changes in the coming weeks?

"I do think so because we've had two 6-day breaks and we've got another one so that's 3 games in 12 days. We've got some guys that we just need to get some freshness. I’m not sure what that looks like yet, so I don’t want to overstate it or who it is. Let us sit in this one and we'll work through it".

Can you clarify Tom Mitchell's availability tonight?

"We were reluctant to say out 'injured' because if he had to play tonight he would have played. We kept him on standby just in case if there was a late withdrawal. He has been managing an ankle since the Richmond game and it’s been grumbly. He’s been getting up to play but it’s been grumbling all week. We thought let’s give him this 6 days off or this game off and get it right and then it won't be an issue for the rest of the year. That’s my understanding of how it looks, but if he had to play tonight then we probably would have done it next week. We'll work through that. Ideally a few days off from playing will get this ankle a bit better than what it is right now".

A lot of people out there will probably say Collingwood are 0-2, there's a Premiership hangover. What's your response to that?

"That's probably a natural thing to say, but that's not how we think. I wouldn't have thought that's how we think. We have trust in the process. We’re trying to get better every single day. That has been our mantra for two years and it's not going to change. Our system has been really strong for us in recent times. We’ve got to get back to being that team. Having trust in the system is the only way through. Process and system".

Has the later finish from last year combined with an early start lost a few weeks of training? Has that impacted your preparation?

"No, we're fit and well. We're ready to play. Our system may be a bit clunky at the moment so we're got to get to work on that. That's us coaches and players buying into those things. We can improve these areas quickly. The numbers are not horrendous, but the way we're moving the ball at times is hurting us and then there's some other parts of our game that we need to get better at. Playing good opposition they can hurt you".

If you had a lot of experience backing up from Premierships as a player, you would think that would be a bonus for you. Are you being particularly eagle-eyed of how you watch these guys and looking for signs?

"Yeah absolutely. I'm reading books about things you need to do to repeat things. We're not standing still here. There's a lot of time to go which gives us great belief and comfort. The reality is there is a lot of hard work in the coming days, because we play again here in 6 days time so we've got to get busy. We can’t look too far ahead. The hangovers and not (being at) the same (level as last year)… we’re here to qualify. That’s it. We’re in the process of qualifying and before we do any of that, there is no point in talking about anything else. We have trust in our processes. We’ve got some great coaches who will get busy on this and we have great leadership that we will get busy on some stuff that we need to get better in".

So you're confident you're not seeing any early signs of a hangover?

"None (there's no signs of a hangover)".

Tough night for the forward line, but Ash Johnson has had a tough start to the year. How did you see him go tonight and how he dealt with the pressure if there is any?

"We want to back our players in. We want to be a coaching panel that back our players in; we said that openly to Ash that we'll back him in and give him a chance. It looks like it will be hard for him to keep his spot in the team now, but that doesn’t mean he is out forever. It might be one or two weeks, I don't know. Just go back and be the Ash that we love. Jump at the ball, take your marks, finish your goals, work for others, the things that are right in front of him. He is a good representation of what’s right in front of us. Get back to work, be the best version of yourself and go show everyone else".

With the Premiership flag being unfurled tonight, did it make it extra disappointing to produce that kind of performance?

"Yeah, and I look at our fans and apologise. This is a night to celebrate and we apologise that we didn't deliver on that, but it's a long season".

In the second quarter, did you notice the ball hit the camera (or the sky-cam). It did happen and the ball did deviate. What did you make of that?

"We've got enough things to worry about than being worried about the camera. Let someone else work through that"?

Did you see enough from Fin Macrae from the 35 minutes he played tonight to give him a full game next week?

"I liked what I saw. I think everyone would have liked what they saw. We've got to find players that are hungry and ready to take us to our next levels".

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1087160/fu ... 0506125001

[princem007]

We are 2 games into a 25 round season.

There’s a long long way to go.

It hasn’t been a great start but things can turnaround quick , I remember the Freo game in 22 kickstarted our year after successive losses to Richmond and Bulldogs by similar margins.

Fly knows what needs to be done and I feel we can bounce back from this quick starting next week against Saints.

[Big T]

Let’s take the positives. We aren’t the hunted after these losses. We can become the hunter again. We can go back to basics and do what we do best. Fly is right. Two red hot teams that would probably beat every other team in the comp and we are off the boil.

The only thing we can’t control is a lack of quality talls. Whether that can be fixed in time to qualify, that will be the difference.

[warburton lad]

Let’s take the positives. We aren’t the hunted after these losses. We can become the hunter again. We can go back to basics and do what we do best. Fly is right. Two red hot teams that would probably beat every other team in the comp and we are off the boil.

The only thing we can’t control is a lack of quality talls. Whether that can be fixed in time to qualify, that will be the difference.

This is THE best post of the year.

I think that the Magpies have been slapped in the face by two very good teams (I think both will be top 6 by season's end.

Some changes are required, to be sure.

From McRae's presser, I think Johnson will have a spell- Mitchell in is a no-brainer- ditto McInnes. I agree that McCreery will be the sub next week. Frampton back in and, perhaps, Noble looks likely. Macrae needs to play a full game.

Outs: Johnson, Markov, Lipinski, Dean
Ins: McInnes, Frampton, Mitchell, Noble

It's interesting to note that when a side is 'flying' (no pun intended) players like Lipinski, Johnson and Markov seem much better than perhaps what they are.

Now the blowtorch is being applied and the side is struggling, their impact is considerably reduced.

I think that Frampton back gives Moore a chop out.

Mitchell is a heart and soul player.

McInnes is far more likely than Johnson to impact and, in retrospect should have played the first two games.

Noble for Markov (purely on form)

I think that we need to review the centre bounce structure.

To me, Crisp, De Goey and Macrae should be our starting mids with Cameron who is playing great.

I would play Nick Daicos on the wing and slide Sidebottom forward with McCreery as sub.

Pendles leadership might be better served in the back half at the current time.

Playing with team permutations is one thing, but nothing beats a ferocious attack on each contest next week.

I love the positivity and loyalty of our coach and I think that we will see our grind towards a finals spot begin in earnest against St Kilda next week.

Floreat Pica.

[Ronnie McKeowns boots]

I thought we had a fair crack, not about hunger at all. The story of the game is how Sydney systematically disconnected each part of our structure, rendering our effort in vain. Our links were cut and so players functioned in isolation from each other for long periods of the game. Mids couldn't connect to the forwards, half backs struggled to connect sidewards with our mids. There were no waves, they were blocked and dismantled. Twice in two weeks. So it's up to the coaches to figure out how to get the connections happening again because all the gps records in the world won't matter if they don't chain together like they did in 22 and 23. It was like we were 2023 Sydney and they were 2023 Collingwood tonight.

Spot on Cam, the Swans went all out to block our runs through the midfield; I thought we could have switched a bit more to make them work harder across the ground, we did that a lot last year to spread the defense.

No Mitchell, No Adams, No Finn....do we really want De Goey and Pendles getting first touch in the clearance? Doesn't leave much to go to outside.

Thought Sidey had a dirty night, got plenty of it but seemed off.

Is Jamie cooked? We really needed a spark from him

AJ, well I've never really seen it....and he tackling pressure is not great. Give McInnes a defensive role up forward and let him go at it.

0-2....gonna be pushing shit uphill all year to make top 4 from here

[Ronnie McKeowns boots]

Dean in the pre-season and in two tough senior games looks to have real game. I'd really like to see what he's capable of with another 30 games under his belt. I reckon there's a player there.

I'll back you there Laurie. I'm not sure why Dean is coping so much brunt of criticism after only two tough games. I thought Howe and Q and even Moore were even worse tonight. And don't get me started on why Markov played and Noble didn't. The Markov experiment is quickly coming to an end I think.

Dean is a bloody good kick I noticed last night, that will help

[qldmagpie67]

As Jezza said there’s more questions than answers right now
There is recent history of premiership winners coming out them next season and really never getting started the following year
For mine the thing that really stands out is our lack of desperation
We aren’t sticking tackles, opposition players are running past our players to get lose balls or to get to contests, our kicking is horrendous at all parts of the ground.
I love stats because stats generally don’t lie
Here’s the damning stat from last night
We had 18 turn overs in our or exiting our defensive 50 a total of 13-5 (77 points)
Main Culprits
Moore 4
Markov 3
Sidey 3
Crisp 2

For those thinking things will be ok when Murphy comes back think again.
He isn’t the answer to all our defensive issues
Defence starts up the field which in our case is non existent and barely recognisable from what it was last year which masked some of our aggressive push up field style
Also Murphy is one accidental knock at training or a game from being done for good. (