The List (2024 player movements / list updates / contract discussions)

[RudeBoy]

It doesn't matter how we assemble our squad - by the draft or trades. The important thing is our squad was good enough to win the Premiership last year and this year we are close to finishing in the top 4, so clearly our squad is very good.

The issue really is whether our list will remain strong once we lose a few of our veterans over the next couple of years? Clearly, we have the best player in the comp in Nick Daicos, plus we have unearthed some genuine talented youngsters in Richards and Harrison. We should also have high hopes for McInnes, though he needs to find his feet soon. The player we really need to come on next year is Ed Allan, as he is big bodied fast midfielder we need more than anyone else imo.

Anyway, let's not get too hung up on who we didn't get in the draft, and enjoy the fact we have a very strong list - though clearly one with some weaknesses, as is the case with all teams. Luckily, we now have the best list manager in the business, Graham Wright, as head of our football department.

[Piesnchess]

Get Bailey smith, who is pissed off with Bevo, according to a doggie mate of mine, and a fully fit Mcstay, up forward, one or two other good trades, plus our kids are showing great promise, Harrison, Richards , etc, and Im sure we will be in pretty good shape next season.

[Born to Pie]

Beyond 2024 our list profile (showing current age) will (or should) have a core of:

DeMattia 18 (Age), Jiath 19, Allan 20, Harrison 20, N. Daicos 21, McCreery 23, IQ 24, Hill 24, Richards 24, Lipinski 25, J Daicos 25, Schultz 26, Maynard 27, Noble 27, DeGoey 28, Moore 28 and Cameron 28. (17 players)

We know we've lost Murph at 24 who would have been part of this group, and now it seems Carmichael (although I don't know which group he would fit, the point is probably mute)

Experienced but racing the clock are:

McStay 29, Crisp30, WHE 30, Mihocek 31, Elliott 31, Mitchell 31, Sidey 33, Cox 33, Howe 34 and Pendles 36. (10 players)

I would expect to lose 2-3 of the experience group, probably Cox and maybe Sidey.

That would be at least 24-25 players that if all available make a quite formidable playing group.

Beyond those listed above we have 16 other listed players:

Those who have semi-regular selection are: McInnes 21, Macrae 22, Parker 22, Dean 23, Kreuger 25, Sullivan 26, Frampton 27 and Markov 28.
Not super stars but role players, every team needs them. (8 players)

The unknowns are: Smit 18, Ryan 19, Steene 20, Begg 21, Long 21, Eyre 21, Bytel 24 and Johnson 26.

We need to develop ruckmen so I think Smit and Steene are marked as that. We also need key position players but I don't see anyone here fitting that bill.

I think Johnson has had his cards marked, and I don't think Begg fits any specific need.

Seeing we are allowed up to 44 players on the list, which we currently have, we also need to move at least 3 players IAW the draft rules.

I can see Mcrae looking elsewhere, Cox, Carmichael and Sidey retiring, Johnson & Begg being delisted. That's 6 vacant list positions.

If we can attract a quality free agent or two we still look like a challenger in 2025 if the list can stay fit. GW will be back soon enough, make the magic happen, and besides who wouldn't want to play under Fly!

[inxs88]

^ Good post Born to Pie. List Management has been and needs to continue to be strong, decisive, unemotional and swift. Personally, I think the following changes need to be made:

1. Steele: retire, but given his comments in April, the club are going to need to push him. His loss can be covered and the easing out of 30+ needs to start with Steele who'll be a fading 33 year old by years end.
2. Begg: unfortunately his body is allergic to AFL.
3. Carmichael: concussion is going to get him sadly. Medical retirement.
4. Bytel: a March 2024 supplementary pick-up has shown his inadequacies be it fitness, disposal and pace. Delist.
5. Sullivan: Delist. The sample size of performances and the eye test suggest we need to go past him for 2025.
6. Johnson: unfortunately contracted for next year. Trade for a 4th rounder and cut our losses.
7. Fin Macrae: Unfortunately his pace, skill, disposal and accumulation isn't up to scratch. Maybe we can do a reverse Lipinski trade to a suitor for a pick in the 40's. Under contract does provide us some currency despite his lack of.
8. Markov: maybe a tad controversial but his lack of ball handling skills and ability to accumulate (9 possessions a game for a loose half back flanker) make him a burden on our 2025 list plans. I'd cut him and hug him on the way out with a big thankyou for 2023.

You'd think Krueger has saved himself, Eyre and Steene shall be persevered with. With 8 list spots up for grabs, we shall pull the following levers:

Draft: As of June 30th, our selections are 26, 44 and 51

Bottom line: we need to use every lever possible and make our destination club/coach glow a reality. We have not recruited a superstar from another club for 30 years since Nathan Buckley and this needs to change!

[K]

...
6. Johnson: unfortunately contracted for next year. Trade for a 4th rounder and cut our losses.
...

No club will be interested.

Will have to delist and pay him out.

[inxs88]

^
There is an Alan Bond always at AFL clubland.

[qldmagpie67]

Our list issues begin and end with the form of our veterans
If the veterans are playing well we go well but if there off there game when we’ve struggled
People are saying oh you can’t not play Sidey or Howe or Cox or whoever over 30 it is because the kids aren’t good enough
Well let’s view it differently how do they get experience
Let’s take Sidey as a snap shot
Debuted rd7 2009 when we got a few injuries
Played 5 weeks then was out for 5 weeks back in for 2 weeks out for 4 weeks and back in for last 2 finals games
When he came in he wasn’t demanding a spot on VFL form but was playing ok most weeks and worth his debut.
He didn’t come in and straight away look like he belonged or would be certain to play over 300 game.
What happened was he was given a chance and over time got used to the pace of the game and the skills required at that level.
Even in 2010 when where on a premiership run his spot wasn’t guaranteed every week and many on here where critical especially of those early days dinky kicks (piedys especially used to lose it over them)
But he was given time while we had experienced players around him
Not every young guy makes it
In the same season Sidey debuted we had Brad Dick and Brett McCaffer and Dayne Beams debut only Beams went on to have any sort of career of those other 3
So it was basically 50% success from those debutants
Richard’s Harrison TJ Sullivan McRae Allan Bytel Dean Parker and now Long have all been given a small taste
While not all will make it I would think Richard Harrison TJ and Dean have shown enough to think there a chance (Long is yet to play)
So let’s give these guys 25/30 games and see where they are at then before writing them off

[Boot]

Due to injuries Collingwood has been forced to debut 9 players this season which is a very high number of first year players especially into a premiership team. This bodes well for the near future as I am sure a few of these rookies will become very good AFL players as they gain more experience.
It will be interesting to see how Josh Eyre performs over the remainder of this year in the VFL as he was flying during the summer pre-season before he blew his hamstring again. He has been well regarded as a potential key forward with the flexibility to play in defense as well.
I am wondering if Ed Allan is going to be used as trade bait for one of Fremantle's 3 first round picks (maybe the one we gave up for Schultz)? I have high hopes that he could develop into a Tom Greene type of midfielder but he hasn't shown much during the season yet and is obviously behind quite a few others in the pecking order at the moment.

[neil]

Dont care where players come from Daft/trade/MSD what is important is the list.
The system is set up so after time at the top you drop down examples WCE Dawks Bitchmond Handbaggers. so eventually it will happen to us
The timing is when is the run of finals over and how the club adapts
We are aiming for a GF win this year so all recruiting decisions have been aiming short term.
Alex Condon seems to be the only exception
Depending how we go this year and who retires/loses form next year will be interesting.
Future f/s seem to be only way to recruit high end talent when successful
Few clubs trade guns and mostly with the AFLs help ambassadorship anyone?

[piedys]

Our list issues begin and end with the form of our veterans
If the veterans are playing well we go well but if they're off their game then we’ve struggled

Sad, but true.

Let’s take Sidey as a snap shot
Debuted rd7 2009 when we got a few injuries
...
What happened was he was given a chance and over time got used to the pace of the game and the skills required at that level.
Even in 2010 when where on a premiership run his spot wasn’t guaranteed every week and many on here where critical especially of those early days dinky kicks (piedys especially used to lose it over them).

quoted for truth; so many unpressured kicks landed at his teammates shins instead of above their waists, and I would crack the sads royally!
Generally, his disposal during the Malthouse years was sublime.
Then floundered under Buckley, until our resurgence in 2018, and has been solid since then.
We have three players who are excellent kicks on their opposite left foot: Sidey, then the Daici. Prior to that: Beams and Ball.

In the same season Sidey debuted we had Brad Dick and Brett McCaffer and Dayne Beams debut only Beams went on to have any sort of career of those other 3

Not to labour the point, but Brad Dick [and Toovey] were secured in the 2006 draft, but due to injury Dickie only became a goal-sneak in our 2009 winning streak leading into the finals; after that he was injury plagued unitl end of 2010. Jack Anthony and Dawes also emerged as targets riding shotgun with Cloke in those years. We'd kill to have two similar KPT players secured via the draft these days.

So it was basically 50% success from those debutants...
While not all will make it I would think Richards Harrison TJ and Dean have shown enough to think there a chance (Long is yet to play)
So let’s give these guys 25/30 games and see where they are at then before writing them off

Ideally in a perfect world, we could grant ALL those players that luxury; however the list sizes have been reduced over the last 15 years or so [IIRC?],
so I doubt we'll be retaining them all, but the players above I presume are safe for 2025.
The luck of others in Sullivan and Bytel may also depend on who gets medically retired by season's end.
As we know, we have to make 3-4 changes at a minumum, and often go overboard in culling [Ruscoe for example].

[piedys]

I would like to know when oh when will the next generation actually come through and the next wave sort of speak.
Too much relyance on older types.
Like to go down the young talent path for the long term instead of the old and tired geelong path of just topping up and up all the time. ...

It's worked for them until now; they are hanging on for dear life until they fall of a cliff once Dangerflog pulls the plug.

Used to love the early Malthouse days of blooding young talent.
They seamed to come out of no where back then.
I much prefer the young pies.
Love it when we are the baby Pies.
And all coming though together and forming into a premiership team.
This is the path to go.

As much as we all loved that sort of sentimentallity, the only times we hit pay-dirt were the 2005 draft, where we finished near bottom, securing Pendles and Thomas. And 2008 with Beams and Sidey.
Thing is, it was a 16 team comp back then, prior to the Arrogant Fat Greek and his beloved GWS and GCS bastardising the draft pool from 2010.
So, so much harder now, particularly with Tasssy team soon to enter comp.
It is borderline improbable for any team which constantly finishes in the top 8 to secure those critical high end selections, which make or break you five years down the track.

[masoncox]

The performance tonight reflected our over reliance of players who were not considered quality in the national draft or players who were discards.
Our flag last year was a great miracle for all of us.
We had luck and great coaching along with players who gave 100%.
But our side was always was going to be long long odds of repeating this feat.
This side is not built to win multiple flags.
The question becomes where to from here?

[inxs88]

Our 2022-2023 period might go down with hindsight as one of the greatest coaching efforts where our system of play trumped talent with the Premiership last year the ultimate prize and validation. That being said, eventually the well runs dry where injury, fatigue, stress and strain takes its toll. That's the harsh reality every fan has to accept however we should at least challenge and speak loud how to pivot forward and not wait another 13 years for a flag.

The big ticket items are:

1. Phasing out our plus 30's: We can't have a Chappell, Marsh Lillee exodus so with Howe and Pendles still playing vital and role-friendly footy, pressure falls onto Steele and Cox despite being contracted should be told time is up. Elliott unfortunately may have to be a close watch given the long term dangers and severity of his vascular issues.

2. Height: the last two weeks has served to only highlight what we know, that being we are simply too small across the field, constantly out-marked across all three sectors of the ground. We have for years, been preached, recruited and bestowed a groundball game vs an aerial game but this makes us the Lleyton Hewitt of AFL forever scrapping and scraping to win games of football and lacking the Mike Tyson knockout punch that tall forwards etc.. bring to results.

3. Recruitment Rumours: unlike in 2022 when all we heard throughout the year was Hill, Mitchell, Frampton, Fiorini and Markov etc... we currently are getting virtual crickets outside of Logan McDonald. Our seemingly lack of aggression, at least on a public level, is disappointing because most journos get the good oil on these rumours.

4. Graham Wright: one would hope he steps up or steps out soon with his long service leave coming to a close. Uncertainty kills all plans and as we appreciate his contribution, his vagueness of intent with Tassie circling does curtail planning.

5. List Management Dare: with a limited draft hand of 26, 44 and 53 at the time of posting, we need to get smart fast. We are short on talent in all sectors of the ground and this is to be expected given the communist system of setup within the AFL. What would dare look like?

* Cut fast and firmly: Begg, Bytel, Sullivan (not up to it), Carmichael, Murphy (both medically retire likely), Steele and Cox (thankyou), Markov (not up to it) and payout Johnson to go. 9 changes to list.

* Use the war chest: we seem to be late to the party but a Josh Battle maybe the most important positional fix we can remedy. Cam Zuurhar is an upgrade on McCreery but compliments him well plus twist Alex Condon's arm that AFL has greater gravitas than basketball. Offer a Tex Walker a 16+ match contract with incentives. Be daring.

NO silver bullet, simply get inventive and avoid complacency.

PS: If you could snare a top 12 pick for Isaac Quaynor, would you say yes?

[Haff]

McDonald has signed a 4 year extension. Media saying pies are no chance at Bailey Smith either.
Cox out of contract anyway? He’s very important to our current structure so need to fix that either with the draft or kids coming through.
Not panicked yet but the path certainly does look gloomier.

[Big T]

No chance of cutting Cox surely. But otherwise I think you are on the money. What I don’t want to see is us trading any future first round picks. I’d like to see us bottom out next year and reload in the top 5 of the draft before tassie come in tbh. Similar to 2004 and 2005.