Post Match. Pies down to Cats. All comments.

[pietillidie]

There's not a single Collingwood player (and I'm including Nick in this) who has improved on last season.

Nick is a far better all-round player, wearing heavy tags and dominating clearances and inside ball in many games this year, often carrying and willing the team often with minimal support in a way the very elite mature-bodied mids have done at their peak. Don't underestimate that; he's now years ahead of most gun midfielders. Now watch what another pre-season and a team reset does.

Josh is the one who isn't backing up his season, but that's for similar reasons that Moorey and Q have been down, i.e., the midfield has been under the pump and we haven't been able to play our forward pressing game to restrict the opponent's forays. Josh is an attacking outside player facing too much ball coming at him. Once we start breaking even over the ball and our forward pressure is back, watch him return to his level.

The team plays a very distinctive style, and Fly has chosen not to drop it. That means we concede games we potentially could've otherwise won or kept closer, but without losing all the work that gone into the ball movement that creates those incredible end-to-end goals, some of which we saw today. Mess with that this year, and it's gone for next year. It's a coaching choice, but who can argue?

Schultz has struggled to reach expectations, but you couldn't look at his highlight reel prior to recruiting him and have predict that.

The ageing list is a follow-on from past recruiting failures; nothing can be done about that now. And even if 3/4 of the 'thereabouts' talent doesn't make it, the VFL system looks like it prepares players better than ever in our history. If it's already developed a few keepers, such as Richards, Dean, Harrison, Jiath and Longy, and the system is only just warming up, we will be in far better shape than ever.

Someone rightly mentioned the ridiculous players Geelong have recruited, far above their rightful weight. Remember, this Collingwood is now a destination club, so those players will follow, with the good players we blood who don't make it helping. I do think Sleepy Hollow and some of the interstate clubs have the advantage over the city lights for those seeking a certain lifestyle, but the club can't have done any more than it has under McRae to become a desirable destination.

So, hang in there. At least we now make long-run calls we have always wanted, even if that means some interim frustration overcoming past list, player development and club culture mistakes.

[piedys]

Well I'm already broken; but would have been beyond repair had we lost....

Chin up mate. We're down for the count this year, so it's important we throw in the towel for 2024 and make sure that our fight in 2025 is a knockout again. But we can't keep taking this many blows for much longer.

There's not a single Collingwood player (and I'm including Nick in this) who has improved on last season. Of course we've blooded some new kids with promise.
Richards looked alright tonight. But all those players we relied on last year have either been injured or have just stunk the joint up bigtime. And there are some big names in there....

Not improved due to the taste of their own bathwater; must be a decent drop though, as they play like they are drunk on it...
Some have actually regressed backwards....

Stay strong Piedys.

Nothing to lose now for this team.

Thanks Miss Kate; am trying but have cracked the shits Royally tonight.

I HATE the handbaggers: Dunderklumpen, Squib Rowan, Sniper Cameron, Umpire Pet Dangerflog, Handbag Henry and their other over-achievers.

[inxs88]

Out coached for 4 games straight.
Shambolic.
8 wins from 17 games? That’s disgusting whatever what you look at it.
The Freo capitulation and Gold Coast ‘nearly’ comeback has sealed our fate.
Nothing surer than our bogey team in Hawthornensinf our season next week.
Amazing effort 2022-23, to win a flag. But the recruiters (and shine in particular) must be held accountable. No elite talls year on year as every other club finds big body goal kickers is deplorable. Surely a clean out from that side of the football ops department.

Giving up a Top 10 pick and Ginnivan for Schultz was also a mastertstroke.

Looking forward to the powers that be shitting away Nick Daicos’s best years with a patch-quilt C-Grade team the way they did Pendles’s during his 20s.

The best summation I've seen on here!!! The continued targeting of skill-less, vertically challenged and/or one paced mediocre players requires a Royal Commission. Consider:

* L Sullivan
* J Bytel
* L Schultz
* I Chugg
* T Bianco
* C Poulter
* J Rantall
* F Macrae
* C Brown
* T Brown
* N Long

Awful, simply awful!!!

[slangman]

This game was the symbol of our season.

Jumped at the gate, make up ground and get our noses in front for a short while to ultimately fall away at the end.

This is the most disjointed that we have been under McCrae and although the football department are at pains to work out why, recent comments by Fly and his change in tone suggest to me that they are struggling to address the issue.. As some have already mentioned only DC has really improved on last year with a few remaining at the same level as 2023 whilst a vast majority have gone backwards….some nearly off the cliff.

The 2023 trade period will in time be assessed as a massive disappointment with the disastrous trading of a 1st Rd pick in a year where it will most likely be as low as 6-7. This type of stupidity is what stifles list regeneration with quality draftees which then results in a constant cycle of speculative picks in PD, Rookie draft and Cat B rookies.


The player that has been most disappointing for me this year is Bobby Hill.
I’m not sure what’s going on with him but from the first game against GWS I began to notice concerning traits that were infiltrating his game.
He has kicked 21 goals in 18 games at an accuracy of 43%.
I’d like to see him as sub next week (only injuries saving him from VFL). Crisp was sub once this year and he has way more runs in the board so Bobby shouldn’t be beyond getting dropped.

Too much is left to too few which has been frustrating to watch.

It was pleasing to see Elliott back out there after so long out. Schultz and Hill should have a bloody good look at how Elliott presents as a forward because what they both do is not anywhere as good as Jamie.

Sadly the season is done which is a bitter pill to swallow after the performances of the last two years and the optimism leading in to 2024.
The bubble has burst on what promised to be an unforgettable year.

[doriswilgus]

Cameron and Nick Daicos are the only two players who have had good consistent years.You can’t build a premiership around two players.

[think positive]

I lament the absence of the following tonite through injury...

Cox, Howe, McCreery,McStay, Mihocek and Mitchell (I count McStay as he is only returning this week from an ACL) would all be in that 23 this evening if fit...That is a fair chunk of talent in anyone's book.

We have kids like: Allan, Macrae, Sullivan, Dean, Jiath, Demattia, Eyre, Begg, Ryan, Steene and Smit either injured or just learning the trade in the VFL. Some will make it, others (including Ash Johnson & perhaps Bytel) appear to be on the way out.

Apart from the ritual boning from the maggots tonight, our players have looked tired all year- special thanks to the AFL for giving us the shortest preseason ever given to a reigning premier.

Richards, Harrison, Krueger and Long all played tonight and will be better for the experience against a quality opposition...

After the crap start being three goals down, we showed some ticker but butchered the ball going forward and missed some gettable goals.

Prudent pruning of the list is surely required- we need to jag Josh Battle to shore up the defence and a clever and quick half back would be gold. A tall wingman (Tomlinson or Mason Wood) both unrestricted Free Agents, would be great too.

There is another flag in this list- even if we happen to miss the eight- put in an enormous pre season and tackle 2025 with renewed energy.

If, by chance, we still made the eight, I maintain that NO side will want to play us if we have anywhere near a full list...

Floreat Pica.

perfectly put

while my pics denoise, my thoughts....

Firstly, I am sick and tired of hearing/reading "lucky we nabbed/stole/fluked a flag last season". Bullshit! Nothing ever comes easy to Collingwood, the cash cow never gets the breaks, never gets the 50/50 umpire calls, the only bit of luck was the Maynard incident, I dont think he meant it or had a choice, but still with the currant climate, yes, lucky he played. That cup was the culmination of 2 years slog and hard work, never never quitting, fighting to the end. youve got rocks in your head if you think thats easy to come down from.

Collingwood and everything and everyone it stands for earned that flag, deserved that flag. They dont come easy unless the umps give it to you ala 2016. Certainly can anyone recall us getting an easy one?

Yes we probably celebrated too long, however, the majority of the players were back in the gym within days of winning the flag. Then cue the AwFuL and their idiotic round 0. when has a premier been treated so badly? early start to the season, interstate game, and 3 games in 12 days. The premier ALWAYS gets favourable umpiring the next season, what a damn joke! we should have won both draws, they were stolen from us. tonight there were the usual howlers, Jamies mark not paid, when geefrickenlong kicked it 9 metres, mark. the goal they got after the player was tackled and dropped the ball, but no holding the ball called. twice our players were illegally held, no free, in fact it was paid against.

The backline is struggling, Murphy is missed horribly, not just by Moore. i thought Moore started alright, but he is certainly not at last seasons level. I personally believe that Q has bulked up too much, hes slowed down and we need his speed back. I dont think Josh gets enough credit here at all.

The fumbling tonight was mind boggling, the damn dinky kicks, and handpassing after a mark instead of at least roosting it down the middle is driving me mad! And as much as its cute to see the players trying to chuck a coathanger on a rack, damn get out there and do a johnny, kick from all over for an hour until you dont miss! We look tired, last season every pic I took there was a player running with the ball carrier, all the time. We are not doing that for what ever reason.

however, what the players cannot fix themselves is the height problem. Darcy cameron is doing one hell of a job, but its not enough. Mihocek, McStay, Murph, Howe, Cox, we need that height. we need desperately to grab, steal, buy a genuine KPP forward, god i miss cloke clunking the marks all over the place!! and we need a Murphy replacement.

Nick is copping a hard tag and illegal holds left right and centre, yet he still is top 5 every week, the kid is a superstar already.

im loving watching krueger, Harley and Joe.

But for me tonight was all about Jamie. Yes i got the lot!! loved the crowd reaction as he walked back to the goal square and his acknowledgement of it.

Not much has gone right for us, but no team is killing us. The lad is correct, noone will be lining up to play us if we get back to full strength. Im not lovin this losing feeling, but watching so called fans get up and leave before the siren is shitting me to tears. Have some balls, we are better than that.

This season is now probably a bridge too far, the swans look scary good. hopefully the blooos crash and burn. But i still refuse to book a holiday in September! never say die!

Go Pies, Im off to bed, pics tomorrow! lotsa Jamie! cheers

[Jezza]

Fly's presser

After a crazy first three minutes where you conceded three goals, the match then became an arm wrestle until you fell away late.

"Probably something we'll review hard. You go three goals in [the first] 3 or 4 minutes or whatever it was and the margin was pretty much that in the end wasn't it. A bit reflective of what we just spoke about. Losing a lot of territory at the minute. Centre bounces were a big cost; 16-6 or something like that. Scores too, centre bounce scores. This is the game isn't it, you got to be good at everything at times, but not really bad. You got to be not really bad at phases of the game. You got to hang in there and fight. 16-6 [from centre clearance] and goals from centre bounces wasn't great tonight".

Following on from last week where Essendon dominated the uncontested mark game, Geelong did the same tonight which stunted your running game. How did you see that?

"That was interesting because they [Geelong] kicked the ball around but it didn't go anywhere. If anything at times, they kicked it back to us. There was no territory gain from it. This is the thing we weigh up, for three quarters it didn't hurt us. There was no scores from it, or relatively low scores from that phase but potentially it was a cost of energy. Whether we got that right or not is something we'll reflect on".

Did Nick Daicos have a corky in his hamstring? How did he manage the niggle?

"Yeah, at this time of the year I think everyone is carrying something. Both teams sort of get to the line to play. I think that's the reality of this long season that everyone is living. I'd be very surprised if not everyone has got something"

Your injury list has been well documented, do you think injuries are catching up with you guys?

"I do feel like there is a little bit of a dark cloud at times over us. I said that to the players this week that we can't live in that space. Josh Carmichael retiring. Those things we've got to be able to celebrate and support, but also keep moving. Brody Mihocek and these guys; we're not here to make excuses. I think for major parts of tonight, we looked like ourselves. If you come watch us, there was a lot of elements of us. Early, our pressure was really good and in other phases of our game we had -20 inside 50s. I'm not sure too many teams will bode well if that's your key indicator. I just want to rid the excuse(s). I don't want to live in that space. We fight to the last second. We kicked the last goal of the game. That's who we are. When we perform better in other parts of our game, that last second generally might mean a bit more. It's always a challenge".

Do you put it down to Geelong being better in the contest and in clearances? Darcy Cameron had a lot of first use in the ruck, but the midfield battle told a different story. How did you see it?

"No doubt their [Geelong] clearance stuff was dominant. I thought credit to Dangerfield, he looked really dangerous and other parts of their game flow from clearance. You can't give -20 inside 50s to Geelong. They're a really dangerous forward line. Lots of weapons down there. Again, Geelong's method around stoppages was better than ours tonight".

Are the stoppage issues an easy fix?

"Well, I live in the growth mindset that our best days are tomorrow. I know Hayden Skipworth is one of the best coaches that we've got and arguably in his craft. He's a fantastic coach and I know how hard he works on this phase of our game. He won't stand still. Easy fix is a difficult word in this game, but we'll certainly strive and aim to be better".

There was a critical moment where it looked Tyson Stengle dropped the ball, but no decision was paid and he ended up kicking the goal. What did you make of that?

"Lot of critical moments. There was a lot of critical moments. You go through them, there's little moments. Will [Hoskin-Elliott] takes a mark 3 vs 1 and slips over. Critical moments, but to make one more than others? I don't know, it's hard to say that".

Jeremy Cameron kicked 3 goals with Isaac Quaynor matched up on him. Do you think there was a mismatch?

"Do you know how many goals he [Cameron] kicked last time we played them? He kicked 7.4".

It still felt like Quaynor did a good job on him?

"For major parts, we thought we had one of their most dangerous players in check and as all very good players do, they find a way to kick goals. We had one that was nearly touched on the line of those 3 [goals] and the other one was a brilliant snap over his head. What a quality player. You give up three first round draft picks for a reason. I think to your question, I think Quaynor and others were hemming him over at times. In terms of when we've played him before, this was by far the best result so far".

Jamie Elliott returned from injury. He had some moments that gave your team a spark, which would be one of the positives for you?

"We'll take many positives away. There's also reality that there's six games to go. Time is running out, but we'll look to reward all the behaviour that makes us who we are. Time is running out. Yep, time is running out".

How do you talk to the players in terms of conveying that "time is running out" and keeping a positive mindset in terms of making finals and getting into a position to have an attack on the finals?

"Reasonably easy because it's just a fact. We got a number in our head that we thought would get the job done to make the finals. This year has probably been like no other. We don't talk about the future. I know the ladder and win-loss is where most of the judgement comes from, but internally we've got to go 'hey, let's get Monday really well done and keep getting better at our centre bounce or our ability to fight in these little moments or make great decisions around these things or take away uncontested marks'. We live in that space, but we're also realists. Six games to go, running out of time".

The last time you lost 3 consecutive matches, you obviously responded so well. Is that something you can use towards motivating the playing group?

"I don't want to look too far ahead but the space we live in, why can't we perform really well all in the games that are coming up. There's no reason to think otherwise. We'll start to look at our group. Who's available and who's not available and to keep trying to get better. That's all you can do. It was a step forward from last week? Potentially. I thought we played 30 minutes of [good] footy last week and lost by 12 points to a very good team. Tonight, we've probably played better for longer periods but again we didn't do it for long enough".

In the last quarter, Geelong used the clock really well by using time and space to keep the ball and deny you possession. Was that frustrating for you in trying to claw back momentum?

"Great question, because it was. It was a frustration of we were trying to get the right amount of numbers forward so when we got it there we could actually keep it there. We sent two or three messages out and we were trying to scream from the boundary like 'come on' to make that work. Again, the cost of that is untold in terms of energy and whatever. The Cats were fantastic in the last quarter in managing the clock. We had to score. You get behind, you have to score. We couldn't get the ball at times so that was definitely a frustration".

How's Lachie Schultz?

"My understanding is that he didn't pass the concussion test, so he's going to be unlikely [for next week]. I'm not sure how that transpired. They obviously hit heads. I haven't seen the footage of it, but Stewart was back on the ground so he obviously wasn't [concussed]".

Schultz's absence will give you another obstacle with respect to team selection?

"Yeah, but Dan McStay is playing his first game tomorrow [in the VFL]. I'll see you down at AIA stadium, to be excited for this young lad. He's going to be playing 40 minutes of footy. We'll celebrate that. He's worked extremely hard. Incredible to think how hard he's worked to get himself into this position. If you go down, he's looking really fit and strong. We wish him well and any Collingwood supporters who want a feel good for the weekend, get down there and celebrate Dan and hopefully he gets through unscathed".

Anyone you might get back next week?

"I don't know. I'm still living in this space at the minute trying to work through this one. We'll see how that goes".

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1169481/fu ... 0792458001

[Jezza]

One of the great goals of the season from Jamie.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1169304/el ... 0779464001

[lazzadesilva]

while my pics denoise, my thoughts....
This season is now probably a bridge too far, the swans look scary good. hopefully the blooos crash and burn. But i still refuse to book a holiday in September! never say die!

FWIW, I totally agree with your excellent post which nails the head perfectly.

I’ll tell you what I think will happen. IF they are lucky enough to finish 7 or 8, they will make life miserable for the 1st and 2nd teams and might even win one! As we all know, what stuffed us this year were injuries, especially to key players, and the lethargic way they have played the past 2 - 3 games carrying far too many passengers who didn’t do much. Even today I can count 6 or 7 who played crap. Too much is left to too few to fill the breach. What I hope is that the injured players returning find some semblance of form and that by the end of the season, we will have our strongest team to cause some serious upsets!

[pietillidie]

One of the great goals of the season from Jamie.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1169304/el ... 0779464001

And a nice grab just to remind everyone of his MOY. By geez he stands tall for a small, that lad. Just a star.

[RudeBoy]

A disappointing loss, considering the task we now have, just to make the finals.

However, apart from the first 3 minutes, I thought we competed bravely all night. Cameron deserves a medal for shouldering all our ruck duties, and as others have mentioned, is perhaps our most improved player this year. The truth is we are just a little undermanned, particularly in the big man department. In the absence of Cox, Checkers and Howe, we are getting monstered in the air, week after week. That probably won't change much for a couple more weeks.

The most worrying thing to me, is how we are being beaten so convincingly at centre clearances, despite having our 'A team' of JDG, Nick Daicos, Pendles and Crisp in there.

Without wanting to be negative, it is apparent that Schultz has not lived up to the expectations of our footy department who gave up our prized first round draft pick, plus some, to Freo to get him. Unless I'm mistaken, he has received 2 or 3 bad head knocks already this season and I actually fear he may well be another player forced to retire on account of concussion injuries.

On a positive note, I reckon Krueger is getting better, week by week, and is providing a real physical contest and some drive.

It is certainly looking like this is not going to be our year, but as Laddy mentioned, IF we make the 8 and have close to a full list available, then no-one will want to play us in the finals.

Just remember, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

Go Pies.

[slangman]

Without wanting to be negative, it is apparent that Schultz has not lived up to the expectations of our footy department who gave up our prized first round draft pick, plus some, to Freo to get him.

Go Pies.

I think that the crux of the problem is that Hine has been imho a very overrated talent identifier over the last 7-8 years (national draft) which then creates these types of scenarios where we are forced to overpay to get the players that we want into the club.
If you take out the father-son’s and academy players you would see that since De Goey he has had an extremely poor record. The last KPF of any note that he drafted from the ND was Chris Dawes.
Not sure whether he is the guru that everyone makes out that he is especially after the departure of his 2IC (can’t remember his name but went to Bulldogs IIRC) who I recall a few posters a decade or so back comment that he was the actual brains behind the scenes.

[neil]

Looks like season over as far as a GF goes
Too many injuries, our forward line has spent more time in the medical room than on the field
As for the too many midgets recruited neither Daicos brother or Elliot are tall
Take the tallest players out of any side and it is short Cox and McStay are injured Checkers as well
Did anyone state Schultz was a bad player preseason
Ginnivan was give marching orders for off-field behavior
Adams quit
Some of the young recruits will make it some wont this is the nature of selecting players Cameron had played two games before we recruited him

[dalyc]

Without wanting to be negative, it is apparent that Schultz has not lived up to the expectations of our footy department who gave up our prized first round draft pick, plus some, to Freo to get him.

Go Pies.

I think that the crux of the problem is that Hine has been imho a very overrated talent identifier over the last 7-8 years (national draft) which then creates these types of scenarios where we are forced to overpay to get the players that we want into the club.
If you take out the father-son’s and academy players you would see that since De Goey he has had an extremely poor record. The last KPF of any note that he drafted from the ND was Chris Dawes.
Not sure whether he is the guru that everyone makes out that he is especially after the departure of his 2IC (can’t remember his name but went to Bulldogs IIRC) who I recall a few posters a decade or so back comment that he was the actual brains behind the scenes.

I’ve put this challenge out before but nobody has taken it up. Please go through Hine’s drafts and show with the picks he had, the talent that was missed. I’ll give you Cripps as an easy start.

Next, do the same for whoever you think is the best recruiter in the league.

With hindsight, you’ll find some misses. But you’ll find them for both Hine and the other. Question is would it have been reasonable at the time?

[1eyedpie]

While everyone is talking we need KPF’s I also believe we need a couple of line breaking long accurate kicking attacking half back flankers!

Noble is ok ish he is a bit hit and miss and would never question his endeavour!

Oleg is just terrible by foot and should be backup at best.

This year we seemed to be pinned in our defensive 50 and unable to transition to our forward 50 to score with any fluency!