Post Match. Pies thumped. All comments.

[Dave The Man]

We are now Joke of the AFL

Easily on Current Form worst team in the AFL

Left midway of the 3rd Qtr

[masoncox]

For tHose who think we can play the next generation.
We have lost the last 10 or 11 matches in the VFL.
So glad we won the 2023 flag,
Because this current list is years away from contending AGAIN!

[woodys_world69]

game plan is a deck of cards..... 1 part fails and everything crumbles.

we saw it end of last year as well.. and just barely got it back on track during the finals series to get the premiership.

60+ loss to any side in the comp is not acceptable.

in the post match press conference Fly called them losers... or more accurately "almost losers"
something is not right at the club... need a hypnotherapist in to brain wash them into forgetting they won the cup last year.

fans always say "we will take a wooden spoon if it gives us a premiership" .... but in the cold hard reality of daylight teams dont always stay in premiership windows and we never know when a collingwood side will be good enough to contend again... we cant take this season for granted.

because the season is so close this year... we can still make top 8 if we win all games and only drop 1 more, but our form is no where near it.

[shawthing]

I have to admire the pluck and sheer optimism of some of our supporters. Hoping against hope we will win all our remaining 5 games (and on 36 points we would need to win every one of them as well to make the eight). It's not going to happen, and if by some freak it did it would let a lot of people off the hook who should own this season fair and square like they owned the flag last year. 2024 has been a balls up from go to woe and lately it's more woe! Frankly the coaching has been shocking (worse than anything Nathan Buckley ever dished up). There's been no plan B and if I have to listen to another one of those cliche riddled Fly pressers again I'll explode.

Take a deeper look at our list profile and the improvement in other clubs and you know it will be a while before we ever get back to the top again. At the moment we seriously risk burning Nick Daicos out completely before he's played 100 games. Darcy Moore needs to decide whether he wants to "save the world" or be a decent Collingwood captain and footballer. His fall from grace (and All Australian) this year has been emblematic of the entire club.

[Jezza]

Our biggest losing margin under Fly, and very likely our worst performance under him. It confirms that our 2024 prospects are over now.

Apart from Darcy Cameron and Nick Daicos, you really can't say anyone else was up to an acceptable standard. Just been too many passengers and downhill skiers this year. Given our season is almost done, we need to pump games into the likes of McInnes and give them some continuity. It's not benefiting their development constantly having them in and out of the team.

Our game plan is being picked apart now with the high uncontested possession game that opposition teams are implementing. It stops us playing our high pressure and turnover game that we were so accustomed to in 2022-2023. I don't know whether this issue can be solved this season, as changing a style of play mid-season is very difficult. Fly and the assistants "need to get back work" and figure out a way to counter it, otherwise this will keep happening. It's happened in three consecutive weeks now against Essendon, Geelong and Hawthorn.

Don't know what today means in the overall scheme of things. Is that the end of our premiership window and we need to start rebuilding with our ageing list, or do we have some sort of rebound next year with a longer off-season and the tag of us no longer being 'reigning' premiers wearing us down?

It's clear we need to get proactive and start making some tough calls on the list, especially around our ageing veterans. Today exposed how slow and lethargic we looked and we need to start having a serious eye on the future. I don't think topping up and going for short term fixes will help us that much to be honest.

The next five weeks will be a grind for the club and the supporter base. Need to get to the finish line and put a line through this season.

[Neilo]

This fall from grace has been hard to watch.
I have no confidence that we will see another win this season.
Have almost the entire competition gone past us?
Have we fallen that far from our form of the past two seasons?
Have the opposition worked us out?
Are our injuries and missing personnel hurting us more than we realise?

I look to our coach for the answers to these questions and the only answers are “we need to get to work” and “we strive to always be better”. What exactly are we working on because it doesn’t seem to be working and we are definitely not getting better. We lost today and we were losers, junk time type goals when the game is virtually over don’t mean you didn’t surrender.

Disappointed and Frustrated.
(Apologies for the negativity!)

[Jezza]

This is only the second time in my life that I’ve walked out before the final siren.
The other was 2003 GF.

This year has taken the gloss off the premiership for me and it’s f**king heartbreaking.
To not even be in the conversation for a top spot let alone top 4 with 5 games remaining is a fall from grace that should have the whole club concerned about.
Injuries haven’t helped but they can’t explain very poor accuracy, not manning up, hubris.
This has been a season of WTF!!!

I understand your disappointment mate, but don't be heartbroken. Last year was fantastic and something we'll all cherish forever regardless of what happens now and in subsequent years.

I just think the age profile of our list is now getting the better of us. Deep down a lot of us anticipated it might happen at some point, however it might have come quicker than expected.

[Haff]

^ agreed, can’t take the gloss off our flag. Pies did it in a way no one ever has.
It was really a last gasp effort with the most we had. I think COVID right royally $@&^# us as pre everything shutting down we were really contenders in 2020. Then the hubs just didn’t work for us across the two seasons. This list is the tail end of that, it was just we got Nick Daicos and Fly who breathed life into it. Was never a dynasty starting flag.
Kinda feels like 2004 when we can of a cliff but we can turn it around quickly.

[Cam]

We desperately need another midfielder who can get their hands on it and has run and carry but our track record isn't great. Adams and Treloar never lived up to the hype and assumed value, Mitchell is a role player with a limited future so I'm not confident we can just go and get one. Otherwise Nick will waste prime years of his career like Bucks and Pendles did.

[Jezza]

Fly's presser

Where did you feel it went wrong today?

"Contest. Many many areas. I felt they played the conditions way better than us early. We were still trying to play an open field game when clearly it was a contest, contest, territory game. We were trying to address that at half time. They were fantastic around the ball the Hawks and outnumbered us often, broke our tackles easily. Many many areas today, many areas".

Where does it leave you? Mathematically you can still make the finals, but it's a long way back from here but what's the sense internally?

"I just want to talk to our fans first. That's not a representation of us. That was pretty ugly at times and for as long as I'm sitting here, we're not going to enjoy watching some of that back because that's not who we want to be. There's addressing the reality and facts of the game. Then there's getting to work isn't there? We're a team that's spent a better part of two and a half years building a culture about being 'winners'. We lost today, and we're right on the edge of being 'losers'. You can lose and still be 'winners', and we're right on the edge so we addressed that. Talking about what that looks like going forward. Regardless of whatever is to be done, we want to be 'winners' doing it. We've said that from day one and you've heard that come out of my mouth so there's no timeline on that. There's no full stop on that. There's no end date to that. It's just constantly being a 'winner' and the behaviours and the actions and the connection and the systems and doing your job and being reliable and finding 23 guys that really want to fight to the last second. That's being a winner, so there's come back to what you know and that's where we'll start and that's where we'll continue to strive to be".

Did you think the team gave up?

"No. We kicked 1 goal [by] the third quarter. 1 goal. I said to the group we need to take more risks. We had 1 goal, 12 [behinds] in the third quarter. It's not us. We don't want to be that team. We end up with 9 [goals] or something. Again, we had to take more risks to get 9 [goals] or whatever we got. We don't want to put ourselves in that situation with 1 [goal]. We didn't give up, we'll never give up. We'll fight to the last second and that's the team we want to be. Again, you can lose and be a 'loser'. We've got to be careful on that. We need to act like 'winners'".

You were ruthless across your first 2.5 seasons, but today felt like a final and your ruthlessness didn't emerge?

"A lot of reasons to the game like you can break the game down a lot. You don't win contests, you don't win territory in a wet day. It's a wet day, it's a different game to other games you play. You like to think our system stacks up in all conditions. Take territory, and put good pressure on and turn up to contest. We got a lot of the little things today that we just didn't get right when we need to get right. Credit to the opposition, they were up and going and the ball was sort of flicking around and moving well and particularly in the second quarter that breeze was pretty strong and they made the most of their territory, which we didn't. We were a bit slow to the party on that stuff".

You've spoken about playing "on the edge of being losers", and in the wet conditions they demand a commitment to physicality and winning the contest which you didn't. Were you guys up for it?

"There's so many things that you look at at half time and we just we had so many things that were like 'what are we doing here?'. We had a +3 at a D50 stoppage. That means they've got a +3 forward of the ball, so even if we do win it we're going to kick it to them. We were losing those ones as well because we had 3 players right at the coalface of the contest, so then it spills out. On a wet day, you don't need +3 right on the edge of the ball. It just doesn't make sense. We took a long time to get organised in the small things that ultimately made it really hard to get territory. D50 stoppages, they were amazing at them and we were really poor so there's a cost to that. It's hard to win contests when you don't have enough plays in the screen. Again, we made poor choices around the way we set the game up at times".

Do you have any theories why your leaders would allow you to set up in that manner, especially being an experienced team?

"These are the questions that I continue to ask as coaches and players; 'Hey, we've got to be better in these situations'. That's being connected because I'm looking around and going 'hang on a minute, there's three of us here, why are there three of us here for a kick in? There's no one around us'. That's being really strong and connected and again that comes back to the stuff we talk about. We want to be really well connected in phases of the game and today in major parts we weren't, so we'll need to get to work on that. That's not an endpoint, there's no final siren on that stuff".

Are these things fixable quickly?

"Yep. I can you show now. You would like to think so because they're controllable. The other things right now that the opposition are just getting way too much territory against us, so we'll need to look at that and what that means whether it's from clearance, whether it's from the way we move the ball, the way we set up the ground. Those things are right in front of us. They're obvious [and] everyone can see those. Inside 50s against last week [were] -20. Again today, it was really difficult".

Is part of the issue that you have some inexperienced players in the group that haven't quite grasped how to set up?

"I'll counter that inexperienced players with a lot of experienced players. It comes back to the point, 'Help me out here, I'm in my 6th game, help me out here. Am I in the right spot? Maybe to the left a little bit, come back a little bit. Support us' whatever it looks like so those things are within our control. I think youthful energy is important and I think age and experience is important, but not by itself. Not by itself connected".

You spoke about Jordan De Goey during the week with challenges around his body, do you get to a point to send him in and get him repaired with his groin issue if the season is over in August?

"I'm not sure what that looks like. We're managing him right now at training. Within games, you see we sort of play him in different roles. Not conserve energy but put him in places where we think he can impact. Then get him around the ball. You can see what he does at centre bounces still, he still does that so I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. We're here to stay true to who we want to be and to keep trying to be that team. Those things are futuristic".

Your fans are going to hear and read about this being an "end of an era". Why would it not be an end of an era?

"Because we're still breathing here. Nothing's finished here. We're still here. I guarantee you we'll walk into Monday we'll be getting to work. Nothing's finished. There's no endpoint right now, and I'll argue that there's no endpoint for us ever. It's just continuous. We're in this journey of discovery and a new version of us, exploration. We're still getting better everyday, so where's the endpoint on that? This is a different version of us potentially, but maybe we have to go through this to be a better version of us".

Injuries today with Nathan Kreuger having concussion?

"Kreugs will be out. We'll wait and see how long it takes for him to get through the protocol. It's unfortunate. He'll miss at least 14 days. Got a couple of guys back next week. Beau [McCreery] looks like he's ready to go and Shooter [Schultz] will be available through that I think".

How do you reflect on Dan McStay's return? How do you reflect on his return 8 months after his injury?

"You saw little glimpses didn't you of what he can do for us. Speed, forward of the ball, marks the ball, clean hands. Really tough day, it was blowing sideways and wet. For a key [position] it was difficult. Starved of opportunity at times. We managed him at the end with the workload to make sure he got through. It's an exciting story. If you get yourself a chance, get on the website and watch the 30 minutes that they put together on him. It was pretty special. You've seen the journey he's gone through. Resilience, pick yourself up go again. What a great role model for where we're at right now. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get on with it. Fall off the bike, get up. As a kid you scrape your knee, get up and go again and here we go. We're falling over today, but we'll pick ourselves up and ideally someone's there to pick us up when I'm down. We won't do this alone, we'll do this together".

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1176438/fu ... 1470175001

[Culprit]

Hard to watch from Canada. I set the alarm and rose at 0330 and I should have kept sleeping. Clearly there is no hunger and too many passengers. The Coach/s have to wear some if not a lot of the blame. It’s hard to go back to back but to drop so far is embarrassing. Every club has injuries so that excuse doesn’t wash with me. Play the kids, work on recruiting and departures. 2024 is over.

[Piesnchess]

Also, the most disappointing thing for me, was not so much losing to the Dawks very good side,they will do some real damage in the Finals, but the margin, I really didnt expect to lose like that, a belting. They say you learn from defeats, well by golly, we learnt a powerful lot from them, and must put those lessons learnt into next weeks match, and try to redeem this bleak result.

[qldmagpie67]

It’s hard to know where to start looking at last night
Normally I go to the cold stats but seriously there so one sided it’s makes you sick
There’s moments in games when you think just watching heck that’ll come back to haunt us
McStay misses an early one from 35m out in front and another from 40min front, Krueger misses from 10m out ouch, Hill doesn’t settle when he has time misses badly, Elliott hits the post from 51 and a Nick D on the run 40m out which he kicks 95/100.
All these moments happened within the first half. Those 6 goals which easily should go most days leaves us at 7-5 at half time and the game looks different.
Momentum was against us all night but it was our own doing.
Where relying on Pendles to lead and rescue us and he didn’t have it in his legs any longer. Playing on next year is his decision but I’m thinking he may be rethinking what we all thought was an easy decision 10 weeks ago.
Ok so let’s break it down. JDG is a shadow of himself. He has no burst speed and no lateral movement. Why are we playing a guy who at best is 70% fit. Because he can’t impact the midfield where we need him most it’s putting pressure on everyone around him. His opponents are running off him at will and breaking his tackles as they please. His kicking is hampered to the point he has no follow through. Give him a weeks rest bring him out for Pendles 400th then send him to the rehab unit for the rest of 2024.
Elliott isn’t anywhere near 100%. He’s getting some ball but failing to be able to apply the pressure he normally brings inside 50. His still able to mark when he gets clear but he’s not getting clear often. Again give him the week off bring him back for Pendles 400th.
Moore is a shadow of himself. His confidence is ruined. Moores strength is being an aggressive defender leaving his man and getting to contests. Because our midfield is being thrashed so badly each week the ball is coming is with restless regularity and with no pressure on it he’s a deer in the head lights. He’s a CHB not a FB. Our zone defence isn’t working it needs to be changed. Make the changes now for 2025.
Hill is now showing what he showed at GWS. Hugely talented but low impact. He’s checking out of games because the ball is spending so much time at the other end of the ground. He’s getting further and further upfield to try to get a touch when we do win the ball there’s no one ahead of the ball. Inquire to a west Australia team if there interested in him and see what we get for him.
Ginnivan showed last night why Noble isn’t a AFL standard defender. He has no accountability. He’s not worth a place in the side.
Markov same as above not AFL standard.
In fairness to them both our midfield aren’t doing us any favours putting pressure on the ball upfield but even then they should be able to play hard on there man.
Poor Cameron is exhausted. He’s been carrying this team for a couple months. Bring in Cox next week (he seems to always play well again the tigers anyways) give Cameron a week off to freshen up.
Josh is a shadow of what he was last year. I don’t know why but he’s impact is minimal ans has been most of the year.
Nick has so much pressure on each possession to do something miraculous he’s stopped doing what he does well. The kid (along with Cameron) is carrying this team and with the added pressure of the hard tags his impact has been nullified most weeks. I get our preferred midfield has been absent for the majority of the season which hurts but those who are spending time there aren’t helping him out much.
I read the votes earlier and wonder if people here actually watch the game closely.
Sidey last night had 4-3 kicked on him by his direct opponents. They run off him all night. In the 3rd when Massimo kicks a goal they go back to the wing for the bounce and Massimo is laughing at him. Seriously laughing right at his face. The ball bounces and Massimo runs straight forward Sidey literally jogging 15m behind (in fairness Massimo does have speed and younger legs) and the ball comes inside 50 he impacts the contest the ball spills out fumbled by Noble bounces around then bang a hawks goal.
Sidey has never been quick and in today’s football speed can expose you quickly and he’s exposed weekly now whether it’s on a wing at HB or in the middle.
He gets next week off and a fair well game in Pendles 400th. He’s cooked

All our veterans are a year older and it seems that year has caught up with a few of them. They only need to be 5% off from their best (2023 best not career best) and it’s noticeable.
Howes trigger doesn’t help the process of transitioning and makes the calls on other veterans harder.

Our season is over let’s be honest. We won’t win the games required to play finals.
Let’s set ourselves for 1 game. Pendles 400th and a chance to hurt Carlton’s chances to finish top 2. If we can’t win it let’s make it harder for them at least.
Rest whoever needs a week off next week so there at the best they can be for the following week.
Once Pendles plays that game all players carrying injuries are sent to medical facility to be accessed and treated so they can have an off season in preparation for 2025.
Sidey gets that game as his fair well game.
We need to know that week if Pendles is going on. If he is fine but if not thanks for being one the greatest to ever wear the black and white but we need to see what kids like Allan, TJ, Harrison, Richard’s etc have playing there preferred positions.
Sounds harsh ? Yes I’m sure it does. But prolonging these decisions doesn’t help our future.
The hawks disassembled a 3 peat premiership team over a 2/3 year period. Hodge Mitchell Lewis Roughead and a couple lesser names all sent packing or retired. There was no sentiment it was all about the clubs best interests. Would the hawks be where hey are had they let hodge Mitchell Lewis Roughhead play on for an extra couple years and delayed these decisions ? No

Do you think letting veterans play on and having them beaten by no name players who couldn’t polish there boots a few years ago is right just because they want to play on ?
No. The club is bigger than 1 player (ask Buckley who arguably could be the great magpie of the modern generation)
Sometimes the fairytale ending doesn’t happen so ripping off the Band-Aid is the easiest option.
Finally this is all going to be hard because the guy who was bought in for this very reason is on a European vacation. Wright should be front and centre now speaking to these players and making hard decisions.

[Ronnie McKeowns boots]

Well, it may be painful, but it never does any harm to know, or be shown, exactly where you stand.

Why McInnes has not played every game he has been available is a mystery.....I'd also be giving McRae games, even if we are offloading him, ups his value for its current low floor.

Some older players need to consider what they are playing on for, there is no flag in the offing in the near future.

Seeing Ginnivan do what he always does, and did for us, is really painful. The Schultz trade was a disaster.

[RudeBoy]

That was the worst performance I can remember from a Pies team. As many others have said, we are definitely in a crisis. We have problems across the board, but the most glaring problem we have is that Nick Daicos is our only top quality midfielder, apart from JDG, who is clearly suffering from op. What's worse is that none of the young midfield recruits look like anything but VFL players. Despite all our hopes, Macrae, Sullivan, Long, Bytel, Parker, and even Allan, show little sign that they are good enough, to remain on our list for much longer. Maybe Demattia will come on next year, or maybe not. Maybe McInnes has a future, maybe not.

Then we have to face up to the disastrous Schultz trade, which has hamstrung any prospect of improving our list in this year's draft. Furthermore, it has become increasingly clear that neither Markov or Frampton can be relied upon week in week out. Occasionally they have good moments, but overall, they are very mediocre players. Finally, as others have said, it is apparent that father time has caught up with BOTH Pendles and Sidey. Who knows whether Mitchell has any future either?

Fly has thus far been an excellent coach, but now is the time for him to really be authentic. I'm getting sick of hearing his perpetual mantra of how we are constantly improving and striving to be the best versions of ourselves. Sorry Fly, that is bullshit. We are not improving, we have been on a downward trajectory all season.

Of course we still have some talented players, and it's possible we could rebound, but apart from possibly beating Richmond next week, I can't honestly foresee us winning another game for the year. I'm usually a glass half full person, but right now the glass looks close to empty to me.