The List (2024 player movements / list updates / contract discussions)

[Born to Pie]

Storm uses the next man up ethos ie. whoever comes in can do the job.
Bellamy trains his players to play the Storm system and has a knack of improving players that struggled at other clubs.

Collingwood has tried the next man up way but it hasn't worked out this season.

They find players who they believe can improve under their system.
They move players on, good players at that, for salary cap issues or for the benefit of the club in general.
There is a large move on factor not just at the Storm but in the NRL in general.

Keep in mind the NRL teams aren't hampered by a draft, they can sign players as young as 13 in their juniors system, and players can also change clubs during the season.

[Pies4shaw]

Unless they want the footage for a documentary about the demise of Yarraville in the old VFA, we probably don't want to be swapping out our all-time greats for guys who can't get a kick in the seconds. We need a rebuild, for sure - but it's usual to have some bits and pieces lying around for the "build" part. There isn't much of that at Collingwood. We did have one great teenage gun to parner with Nick Daicos for the next decade - but we seem to have traded him out for a handful of magic beans and kept a whole lot of players who don't have a quarter of his talent.

That, of course, leads inevitably to the trivia question: "Who was the last Collingwood rookie to have over 30 disposals and kick 2 goals in a Collingwood-Hawthorn game?" I want to laugh - but it really just isn't an option.

[Magpie Russ]

^

Agree. Think the general consensus is you don't retire aging players all at once.
Disagree. "We did have one great teenage gun to partner with Nick Daicos for the next decade".

We are playing so average at the moment everyone is having a day out. The teams that looked like world beaters after playing us then going on to lose the next week or so... Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Essendon, Cats.

My only regret with Ginnivan is that he has a medal ahead of Noble, Adams or McStay. The sooner we stop booing him, giving him any attention the better.

[masoncox]

The reason I am worried about our list is the good young players are not there.
Kaput....nothing.
We have Nick Daicos and that is it.
Go back to 1988 ...2 years before our flag year and you will see that we had G Wright, M Christain, C Kelly, G Brown, C Starcevich, G Crossica, M McGuane, D Monkhurst, D Millane, R Mckeown, M Gayfer, A Richardson.
All these players were 23 or under.
Same with our 2008 team .... 2 years before our next flag.
We had Harry, Pendles, D Thomas, N Brown, Ben Reid, S Wellingham, B MaCaffer, Goldsack, Heath Shaw, Travis Cloke.
All these players were 21 years or under.
My point is that you need a big spread of age groups.
We have a decent team of old and middle aged players but there is nothing there 23 years or under that look like being half decent.
Nick Daicos is the only exception.
There maybe a few like Jiath who may make it but we will not have 10 or so good young players like we did in 2008 and 1998.
We are in trouble.

[SLORT]

So apparently Adelaide is willing to give up it's first round pick for the right trade. Any interest?

[qldmagpie67]

Our list issues are of our own doing
We’ve constantly traded out high end draft picks for mid range talent
I understand going to the draft doesn’t guarantee you’ll hit the player your looking for but seriously other than Nick and Darcy we haven’t used a top 10 draft pick (the year we drafted Freeman and Scharenberg was a disaster seriously) since JDG ( which we got from the Beams trade anyways)
Hindsight is a great thing but if we had traded Grundy (2020) when he was out of contract our issues now mightn’t look as bad. There was a offer of a 1st round draft pick (2) and exchange of first round picks (we would have went from 17 up to 11)
So we would have had 2 picks (2 and 11) how we used them is a different story but at least we would have had a chance to grab some young talent.
Not only did we not get the picks we lost Treloar (which cost us 2x first round picks) because of cap space (largely due to the size of the Grundy deal going forward) so that non trade cost us basically 4 x first round picks.
Then in 2018 we traded away our 2018 first round pick and our 2019 first round pick to bring Beams back. Having just missed winning a GF the club thought he was a piece which could help win the flag. It was at the time a controversial decision for some but the 2017 and 2018 seasons he averaged 29 disposals a game played 40 games (across the 2 seasons) finished inside the top 10 in Brownlow voting and AFL coaches voting and was widely regarded as a top 10/15 player in the game. Again hindsight if we didn’t make the trade we have 2 more 1st round picks and younger players on our list. (Let’s not forget the original draft netted us
JDG and Crisp). The Beams trade was a bust I don’t think anyone saw his personal issues magnifying so much we gambled we lost and it hurt.
Now this year we don’t have a first round pick (at the time of posting) having used it for Schulz (who I believe will be worth it in the long term) but now we are the oldest team on average age on the field each week.
We have a massive hole of talent under 25.
How we get out of it is anyone’s guess but we need to make some serious list changes come seasons end before the Tassie team starts getting massive draft compensation in the coming years.

[stoliboy]

We can:
- Trade players for Top 10 Draft Picks (who would we give up)
- Trade for a player who was a Top 10 Draft Pick
- Beg for a priority pick like North (I know that isn’t happening)

Perhaps there are a few Top 10 Draft Players that haven’t reached their potential at other clubs. We could snag a few that way.

[neil]

Go back to 1988 ...2 years before our flag year and you will see that we had G Wright, M Christain, C Kelly, G Brown, C Starcevich, G Crossica, M McGuane, D Monkhurst, D Millane, R Mckeown, M Gayfer, A Richardson.
All these players were 23 or under.

It was a very different system back then you had an under 19 team which is where most of those players came from
Now all under 19 are subject to the draft

[Pies2016]

What I don’t understand is, if having early picks is this magical path to success, then how is it both Essendon and Carlton have had so many top ten picks and yet neither have virtually made an appearance in any finals for the last 20 years. If I have to keep reading how bad we keeping doing everything, then can we at least put it in perspective and compare our performances against the vast majority of other clubs in the competition.

We kept our first round pick last year and the reward for winning the flag, was pick #25 in the N D. Pick 25 is speculation territory, not a first round pick. The year before, when we were beaten in the prelim, we kept our first rounder at pick #19 ( also bordering on speculation territory ) We function in a system that simply doesn’t reward being successful but if you’re shit for long enough, it’s designed that you’ll eventually come good, even despite yourself.
And as for trading away this years first rounder, well there’s plenty of examples like the above to suggest early picks are no guarantee of success anyway. Just ask a Blues, Saints or Bombers supporter. Do you reckon they would have liked to have been so bad at list management as Collingwood and yet still won two flags in the last thirteen years. Less than 12 months ago, with key roles from Pendlebury and Sidey, our ageing list won a flag. Can anybody really say that would have still occurred without them ?

Winning flags is only going to become harder to achieve. We currently have eighteen teams ( soon to be 19 ) in an equalised competition where there are no guarantees of success going forward. That alone, should be enough for Pies supporters to appreciate the 2023 flag even more. It’s certainly much more therapeutic than condemning the 2024 list for being too old.

[masoncox]

^^^
I don't think posters are critical of the aging list
We are just concerned that in the under 23 bracket.
There is not much there.
Given that we have no first round pick who we gave up for an ordinary player.
We can't get anywhere in future unless this is fixed.

[qldmagpie67]

Pies2016
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a guaranteed success if we go to the draft but I think we are asking the question why we’ve traded out 1st round draft picks year on year and now find us with a gulf in talent between 21-26
I get we have some untried talent who might make it as good or very good AFL players but if we keep prioritising keeping veterans on our list over giving kids time to develop then we wonder when we improve
Right now our veterans are struggling week in week out to provide the desired output to lift the team like they’ve done before.
We all get the arguement selection integrity but surely now given our ladder position and how some of the veterans are struggling for impact then getting games to younger players to see if they can cut it makes sense.
I would like to see Allan Bytel Richard’s Harrison Dean TJ all get extended runs
Let’s not forget not all players walk in and are instant hits
Sidey himself went in and out of the side over the 12/18 months of his career
Some times they need games then a break then games again to understand the work required at the top level

[Pies2016]

^^^
If we’re talking about the U23 component of “ the list “, then it’s hard to disagree with our current predicament ( on the surface at least )
But this is where we find ourselves after missing the G F by a couple points in 2022 and winning it in 2023. We invested heavily in the draft in 2020 and if Henry was still at Collingwood, we would possibly all be feeling fractionally better about the situation. It didn’t help that because he was out of contract, we got unders to add to the pain. MacRae, McInnes and McCreery are all still at the club.
2021 was the big investment in Nick. Harrison is still at the club.
2022 we kept a first rounder, albeit at #19 ( Allan ) We could have invested heavily in this draft but we traded out for Mitchell and Hill. I wouldn’t think anyone regrets that decision. Allan and Ryan are still both on the list. Both are just 20 years old.
Come 2023, we kept our first rounder and the reward for winning the flag was #25 ( DiMattia )
In my simple world, the end justifies the means, so I’m not prepared to be overly critical of decisions that ultimately shaped and gained us the 2023 flag. The consequence of any successful period, is that at some point, there will be pain ahead and that’s in keeping with how an equalised competition looks. The pain will be the losses but the losses will bring us the early picks required to straighten this list up again. I’m ok with that because that’s how the system is designed to work and more importantly, we still achieved that elusive, ultimate success along the way.

FWIW, the club has already “ participated “ in this years draft. They have signed both Parker and Smit, both of whom would have been taken in this years draft. Even without having done a preseason, both along with Jaith, look to be ones most likely to take a step up next year. It would only take an uninterrupted and committed pre season by both Parker and Jaith, to replace Noble and Markov as general defenders in the seniors in 2025. I would think those who watch the VFL EVERY WEEK, would likely agree. Throw in Thomas McGuane, who looks a serious talent as a bottom ager this year and having first hands on him in the 2025 draft, will also give us greater flexibility in the next two drafts. No doubt there’s a lot of work to be done but it’s not all doom and gloom. At the end of 2021, did anybody think we were going to win a flag two years later.

[LaurieHolden]

With all the piss and moaning about the Shultz trade, it offers nothing to the discussion, it's done.
1 player drafted in the 1st round doesn't turn a list around.

We're a Club that will be trading for the next 2 years and take what we will through the draft.
We'll have the cap space, just depends on if we want to start this year or next.
2025 is the year the RFA's listed below might be leveraged out of their current Club, should cap space puts a squeeze on any of their contract negotiations.
That's when we need Wrights experience at the negotiating table.
There's a swathe of quality RFAs or UFAs coming out of contract in 2025 https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/out ... ?year=2025

Out by end of 2025 : $3.6m* ~

• Elliott $650k
  Howe $650k
  Mitchell $650k
  Sidebottom $750k
  Pendlebury $900k

*guestimates in their remaining contract value.

Any of the following could easily fill current or future voids on our list:
Unsigned RFA @ 2025: add 4x@avg$900k / $3.6m

• Darcy Fogarty
  Reilly O'Brien
  Cameron Rayner
  Sam Draper
  Andrew Brayshaw
  Charlie Ballard
  James Worpel
  Luke Davies-Uniacke
  Harrison Petty
  Noah Balta
  Hunter Clark
  Robbie Fox
  Oscar Allen
  Ed Richards

[RudeBoy]

That's a sound analysis P2016.

Nevertheless, many of us are simply venting frustration/disappointment at the lack of obvious potential A grade talent amongst our next generation of players, such as Macrae, McInnes, Long, Dean, Sullivan, Allan and Parker, who we need to be able to fill the looming void, once our veterans - Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Mitchell and Elliott - hang up their boots. . Maybe Allan, Parker and McInnes have futures as senior players, but none of them inspire confidence that they have what it takes to become future stars. Of course, I might be wrong and they may go on to become champion players for us, which I certainly hope is the case, but what is certain, is that we are about to lose the services of a host of absolute stars.

[The Black and White Lion]

Re PIES2016
Yes agree re the VFL Parker the standout, Smit showed signs. Jiath and Dean were good in the first half of the VFL. Eyre was very good in the preseason before the injury. Not seen much from Demattia yet. Ryan disappointing, nothing from Begg and Steene due to injury. Bytel gets the ball and clears it as much as Naicos but with lower efficiency.

We need help big time. Still think it was a mistake to delist 3and4 year bodies like Bianco and Ruscoe. Reckon they could have performed roles this year on the wing and in the back half respectively.


Re Slort and the Adelaide first draft pick.

Yes I think we should offer something given
Our predicament above. We need another top pick to add to Naicos and McGuane otherwise it’s going to be a bleak 3or4 drafts with Tasmania coming in. If we bottom out our high draft picks will be behind the Tassie queue.
I can only think McCreery and Harrison would be involved