Trade Targets ~ Free Agency & MSD player movements

[Jezza]

I hear Zurhaar has re-signed with North so he is now off the table too.

Yes, he's re-signed for 5 years.

[The Black and White Lion]

^^

Whilst Armstrong looks like a gun big time player, if we can't get one of the Whitlock twins there's still hope with quite a few U18 KPP prospects this year like Nichols from SA, O'Farrell, Sims, Faull, Mraz, Tauru or Shanahan (all 194 to 200cm types) in that order.

There's a gun half forward from Vic Country named Joe Berry also.

We all know we need a big KPF, but the chances are Hyne will pick a mid / small / utility first if he has them as the best player on his list and we have the 2 picks in the 26 to 40 range.

[Pies2016]

^^^
Yep, there will be no shortage of U18 talls going around but when it’s time to seriously go shopping for one, you’re looking to work yourself into a position where you get access to the best talent at the time because they are genuine key forwards, not just because they’re currently tall enough to out mark most other kids at U18 level. History shows, the best KPFs going around are usually picked inside the top 10 on draft night ( there are exceptions of course ) It’s bloody difficult selecting 17 year old kids and anticipating where their abilities will take them as a successful key forward in the AFL. Everyone thought the King twins would be the next big thing in the AFL. Six years on and both are still averaging under two goals per game at AFL level.

F W I W, I’ve read that in other years, Armstrong would normally go well inside the top 10 but the quality of the mids will likely push him out to mid teens on the night. Maybe Collingwood see this as their KPF opportunity and trade out their future first rounder, so as to set up a crack at him. The good news with this draft, is that even if another club pulled the trigger on Armstrong earlier, there would still be plenty of quality mids still available in the teens ( or maybe plan B is one of the Whitlock twins anyway )
Having said all that, not many clubs will likely want to trade away their first rounders ( NGA and F/S candidates aside ) because of that quality, so there’s another layer to consider where Collingwood may have to trade out overs just to buy back in. I’d love to be a fly on the wall when those draft night strategies are being held. So many holes to fill but CURRENTLY, so little to work with.

[The Black and White Lion]

^^^
Yeah what have you got Gold Coast (Leo Lombard - GCA), Brisbane (Levi Ashcroft F/S), St Kilda (Cole is another 194cm KPB via NGA) and Carlton (Camporeale x 2 F/S). Perhaps there could be 4 bids inside 30 there to force the picks.

I would be taking a punt on one of the talls above for a few years time because there are so many available this year compared to past years. They look physically bigger or play better compared to the last couple of years but you're right they're still going to take time so we're drafting for 4 or 5 years time. But we have to try sometime and I recall us picking McLarty and Liam McMahon in drafts where there were few KPP options. Let's buck the trend and take one from the pack when there's a glut instead, I reckon we will have better success.

Re the Kings yeah Ben looks physically bigger than Max to me. Don't know if that's just they're natural physique or not but I'm not that impressed by Max. He needs to muscle up or they start playing him as a hybrid forward getting him to move that frame around more than a fixed FF. I'd take Ben out of the pair in hindsight but not sure we will get a look at Ben as a mature forward. No idea what Max thinks of the saints but perhaps he is the one to move instead.

What other mature forwards are there around the league, and that would be available. Lukosius for CHF will cost picks + cash over SA teams? E Himmelberg as a cheap 3rd tall. Can't see Fogarty leaving the crows with Thilthorpe arriving back from injury. Marshall and Georgiades are 2nd and 3rd talls also although we were into Georgiades in his draft year but traded out our picks at Eddie's whim? Don't see any KPF falling out of NSW. Freo is rising so Treacy won't be leaving cheaply. West Coast have 5 or 6 key talls aged 19 to 23 including MSD No.1 Maric from 2023. Matt Jefferson hasn't had a look at Melbourne yet and is stuck down in Casey, he will be a 3rd year KPF body in 2025 who's kicked a few goals in the VFL. I don't see many options from Victorian clubs otherwise.

Need to think about talls maturing in 3 or 4 years time now anyway because Tassie will be the great interrupter with best access to the gun talls coming through. We either need to commit to backdoor mechanisms on KPs or plan, draft and develop them when they're available. At least we're a chance of a bumper tall draft hauls like 2005 if we try.

[derkd]

I am reading that Mark Keane at Adelaide (heavily linkd to being back at Collingwood next year) might have back out and now staying put.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxspo ... 7817b5d500

To be honest, his statement wasn't concrete. Just a "I will review at the end of the year"

Shame if we miss out.

Update on this from SEN, he will request a trade back to Collingwood at seasons end.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/07/31/ ... -trade-to/


He is contracted till the end of 2025, so we will need to come to the party to keep the Crows happy. He is a starting 22 player. Future second rounder get the deal done? I would says a future first is over his value.

[Mr Miyagi]

Geezus, a second round pick *maybe*… but if we give up a first round or future first round then this club is cooked. Stop selling the farm to buy a cow, Collingwood! Not saying he’s a cow, just a figure of speech. We regularly do this with trades and I’ve had enough of us trading our future for a a present player we know isn’t setting the AFL on fire. I’m not sold on this.

[piedys]

Geezus, a second round pick *maybe*… but if we give up a first round or future first round then this club is cooked.
Stop selling the farm to buy a cow, Collingwood! Not saying he’s a cow, just a figure of speech.
We regularly do this with trades and I’ve had enough of us trading our future for a a present player we know isn’t setting the AFL on fire. I’m not sold on this.

This bloke leaks goals like a sieve; I wasn't the slightest bit disappointed when he went home a few seasons back.
The cupboard is BARE - we have nothing to offer Crows to release him, even if he was worth anything.

Focus your attention on Himmelberg instead.
It's UFA's during trade period or nothing.

[Mr Miyagi]

100% Piedys. Go big or fall down the ladder and be mediocre. It’ll just get harder to attract quality players in future otherwise. We apparently have the money to pay quality UFAs — no point not spending it.

[derkd]

Geezus, a second round pick *maybe*… but if we give up a first round or future first round then this club is cooked.
Stop selling the farm to buy a cow, Collingwood! Not saying he’s a cow, just a figure of speech.
We regularly do this with trades and I’ve had enough of us trading our future for a a present player we know isn’t setting the AFL on fire. I’m not sold on this.

This bloke leaks goals like a sieve; I wasn't the slightest bit disappointed when he went home a few seasons back.
The cupboard is BARE - we have nothing to offer Crows to release him, even if he was worth anything.

Focus your attention on Himmelberg instead.
It's UFA's during trade period or nothing.

The only thing I will say to the defence of Keane, is yes he sometimes is leaky, however, he is hardly playing in a 'gun team'. Adelaide regularly get belted out of the middle, so the defence is under consistent pressure.

Keane teaming up with Moore, Frampton, suddenly he (Keane) is only taking second or third best forward.

IF, we can land him for a future second, I would do the deal. Good age 24.

Free agency money can be spent on our real needs, more midfield talent to help out Nick. And a key forward talent.

[Pies2016]

^^^
There was a recent article stating he is easily the Crows most improved player this season. You could argue that doesn’t mean much but what I would say is that we should all understand he is a much better player than the one who left Collingwood a couple years ago. Having said that and as pointed out, Keane comes as a trade cost.
I also notice this week, it’s Himmelberg who has been omitted for the Crows and not Keane, so maybe that’s some further insight as to where both players are at ( albeit an omitted Himmelberg doesn’t involve a trade )
If the club believes either one would make our starting 23 better, then I trust their judgement. What I am against, is bringing in more depth at any trade cost. We’ve got too many young blokes who we know nothing about right now ( a lot of that is due to injury ) and that’s who we need to find out about in 2025.

[piedys]

^^^
There was a recent article stating he is easily the Crows most improved player this season. You could argue that doesn’t mean much but what I would say is that we should all understand he is a much better player than the one who left Collingwood a couple years ago. Having said that and as pointed out, Keane comes as a trade cost.

He might very well be improved, he needed to! and I'm happy for him that he has a second chance.
But I hope his manager is informed that our hands are tied for 2024 trade/draft period.

I also notice this week, it’s Himmelberg who has been omitted for the Crows and not Keane, so maybe that’s some further insight as to where both players are at ( albeit an omitted Himmelberg doesn’t involve a trade )

Himmelberg still appeals as the better option talent wise, IMO.

We’ve got too many young blokes who we know nothing about right now ( a lot of that is due to injury ) and that’s who we need to find out about in 2025.

Not sure I understand your obervation here; most of those young blokes have got a call-up this season, with the exception of Harry D, who as we know was killing it prior to the finger injury which derailed his season and likely debut.
We have fast-trecked many of these kids, although the jury is out on how many will make it to 2026, as they'll need more senior games in 2025 to find their feet, in what will most likely be a bottom eight side.

[piedys]

The only thing I will say to the defence of Keane, is yes he sometimes is leaky, however, he is hardly playing in a 'gun team'. Adelaide regularly get belted out of the middle, so the defence is under consistent pressure.

I understand your observation, but at present we are suffering the same problem: slaughtered out of the centre, "nutted in the clearances" [to quote a previous coach] and as a result our D50 is getting bombarded, minus Murphy.

Keane teaming up with Moore, Frampton, suddenly he (Keane) is only taking second or third best forward.

But isn't that what we are grooming Charlie Dean for - third best forward ?

IF, we can land him for a future second, I would do the deal. Good age 24.

Free agency money can be spent on our real needs, more midfield talent to help out Nick. And a key forward talent.

Well, depends on how much value you place in 2025 draft; speculation is it will exceed 2024 crop.
Parting with a 2025 2nd rounder for Keane? No; it's time Hine and Wright learned their lesson after the overs we paid for Schultz, which WILL set us back severly by this coming draft.

[Big T]

Anything more than a third round for Keane is just plain stupid. Mind you, our drafting with second round picks has been horrendous, so it’s your classic lose lose

[The Black and White Lion]

Well the AFLs great trade and draft rule updates came through and they’ve caved to Carlton Brisbane and Richmond on F/S and double year trading shifting that back to start in 2025. Will be harder for us to pick Tom McGuane as a consequence.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1185295/dra ... -to-change

We do get to retain rookies for longer up to 5 years from this year

[Pies2016]

We’ve got too many young blokes who we know nothing about right now ( a lot of that is due to injury ) and that’s who we need to find out about in 2025.

Not sure I understand your obervation here; most of those young blokes have got a call-up this season, with the exception of Harry D, who as we know was killing it prior to the finger injury which derailed his season and likely debut.
We have fast-trecked many of these kids, although the jury is out on how many will make it to 2026, as they'll need more senior games in 2025 to find their feet, in what will most likely be a bottom eight side.

We’ve had so many players who have missed big chunks of footy in 2024, I don’t think the following “ unknowns “ should be judged until they complete at least one ( more ) full pre season at the club.
Eyre - 3 month hamstring surgery
Dean - no footy at all in 2022 or 2023
Smit - didn’t arrive at club till mid season
Parker - didn’t arrive at club till March
Steene - virtually didn’t play this year
Ryan - no continuity in 2024
DiMattia - 3 month finger surgery
Krueger - does he have some improvement if he was to have an injury free 2025 pre season ?

I’m not saying any of them go on to be AFL regulars but these “ unfulfilled “ players have virtually no chance at all to take the next step up without a uninterrupted preseason as their platform. As I said in an earlier post, I’m all for trading out if it’s going to improve our starting 23 but I’m not sure we need to bring in “ depth players “ who would require a trade, when you have a list of unknowns like the above.