Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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David
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by David »

Hamas may well not want a two-state solution – which is why it would make sense for Israel to try to sideline Hamas and other extremists and make a deal with their rivals, the Palestinian Authority, who do want a two-state solution. Why are they openly refusing to? Because Netanyahu doesn't want one either (and is on record admitting as much).

People say this situation is complex, but it really isn't. There's a territory inhabited by two peoples – both with historical claims to the land, but one more recently dispossessed and colonised by the other. Among Israelis and Palestinians alike, there are moderates who are willing to share the land and live side by side (i.e. some parts of the Israeli opposition and the Palestinian Authority), and extremists who want it all to themselves, up to and including by exterminating the other side (i.e. Hamas and Likud, and the even more extreme smaller groups sitting further to their right).

At the moment, in Israel and Gaza alike, it's the extremists who are in charge. "From the river to the sea" is the policy of Netanyahu and his allies in government every bit as much as it's the policy of Hamas. And the more extreme one side gets, the stronger it makes extremists on the other side, who point to the other side's violence as evidence that their own moderates are toothless and ineffective. Thus the worst elements of both sides get even stronger and those who would extend the olive branch get even further sidelined. That's where we are now.

We've seen this script plenty of times through human history and in all parts of the world, and it always requires convincing people that the other side is a special kind of evil that can't be reasoned with. And that begins by situating the evil not just in the extremists, but in the population as a whole – which is what you're doing when you point to an election from twenty years ago to suggests that all Palestinians are opposed to peace. This is the logic of genocide.

Some more facts about the 2006 election (and your example of Australia, albeit under a different electoral system that skews away from major party primary votes, only goes to show how it's possible to take government in a country without majority support for a given political party):
• Hamas campaigned under the name of the "Change and Reform" party, mostly positioning themselves as an antidote to longstanding Fatah corruption. They could have called themselves anything – I think the fact they went for such a benign name suggests that they knew they would struggle to win by presenting themselves as militant crusaders or ideologues.
• We know people aren't generally single-issue voters but will choose the major party they get behind for all sorts of reasons. An exit poll quoted on Wikipedia gives some indication of voters' sentiment at the time and what issues they considered important:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pale ... Exit_polls
An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns:

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%
Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9%
Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2%
Hamas government priorities: 1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment
Support for Hamas' impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative - 28.5%
Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6%
Rejection of Fatah's decision not to join a national unity government: Yes – 72.5%; No – 27.5%
Satisfaction with election results: 64.2% satisfied; 35.8% dissatisfied
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by think positive »

61 pages, gees who thought this would still be going on 60 pages ago?
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by David »

Pretty much everyone, I suspect :(
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Durka »

David wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:36 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pale ... Exit_polls
An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns:

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%
Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9%
Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2%
Hamas government priorities: 1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment
Support for Hamas' impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative - 28.5%
Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6%
Rejection of Fatah's decision not to join a national unity government: Yes – 72.5%; No – 27.5%
Satisfaction with election results: 64.2% satisfied; 35.8% dissatisfied
That exit poll doesn't seem right.

44% voted for Hamas, whose policy was then, and is now, to exterminate Israel, despite the exit poll stating that:

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%

If I was a cynical person I may think that they were just making it up as they were going along.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Jezza »

think positive wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:39 pm 61 pages, gees who thought this would still be going on 60 pages ago?
It’s been going on for 75 years :shock:
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Durka »

Jezza wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 5:14 pm
think positive wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:39 pm 61 pages, gees who thought this would still be going on 60 pages ago?
It’s been going on for 75 years :shock:
Thousands of years.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Magpietothemax »

IDF used incendiary bombs in attack on tents near Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Central Gaza.
There were images spread on social media showing patients connected to IV being burned alive.
There was an image of a young boy watching the tent his father was in being incinerated that made me break down:

<mod warning – link below contains footage that may be distressing>
https://x.com/AdameMedia/status/1845606311032926395

US now sending 100 troops to Israel along with extra advanced anti missile protection, and warning Iran that should one American soldier die, this would mean a declaration of war by the US against Iran.

Netanyahu and Biden now openly conspiring, in front of the whole world, to launch a "significant attack" on Iran, which will engulf the entire region in a blood bath, where US imperialism will be using every weapon of mass destruction in its arsenal to assist Israel in its drive to obliterate Iran and impose a "new order" in the Middle East.

War in Ukraine is going badly for US imperialism, Russia is expanding its positions on every front.

US is now targeting Iran, which it sees as an annoying obstacle because of its support to Russia, not just militarily but also in providing military resistance to US imperialist proxies in Syria, and allowing Russia to maintain a stronghold there.

US reasons that once Iran is "neutralised", Russia will be a much easier prey to kill.

Time to stop tinkering around the edges.

There is no 'two state solution', no 'reasonable ceasefire' possible in the Middle East.

There is no negotiated settlement for the war in Ukraine.

Time to wake up that half measures are hopeless.

Only way out for mankind is to overthrow capitalism, because this bankrupt and outmoded system is leading mankind to a catastrophe.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by think positive »

Durka wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 5:36 pm
Jezza wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 5:14 pm
think positive wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:39 pm 61 pages, gees who thought this would still be going on 60 pages ago?
It’s been going on for 75 years :shock:
Thousands of years.
i clearly meant this particular saga relating to the kidnapping
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
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