Well the reaction to no trades was split pretty evenly down the middle - people for no trades and people spitting chips there were no done deals.
Look at the facts - WE ARE SHORT 3-5 KEY PLAYERS. The current list is not good enough to win a flag! They are good enough to make 7th or 8th, but definitely not top 4.
We need a fullback, ruckman, quality on-baller and centre half-back. Realistically no-one can argue with this. All these types of players were on offer. Why - if we have finances, good prospects, coach,etc, - can't we attract players??
The club has erred. Great we didn't lose our favourites: scotland, adkins,etc, but i'm so sure we didn't gain what we should and could have. i am disappointed, but life goes on and as long as we stick behind the club (even though some decisions are mysterious to many of us) is important.
The Future after trade week
Moderator: bbmods
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Millane42
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Kristin5
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I don't think I understand exactly how trading works - are we still allowed to trade after the deadline? If so, then I quite like your ideas 77 Bounces, but I would probably trade our first pick and Heath Scotland for Misiti (I believe Essendon do want Scotland), and then the 2 players you mentioned and one draft pick for Everitt. Of course, the other teams have to go along with this first, and therein lies the problem...
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AlfAndrews
Millane42,
There is a fundamental flaw in what you're saying.
You say we're 3 to 5 star players short of a decent team (I don't think we're that bad, by the way) But even if you're right, trading solves nothing. You might pick up a couple of star players by trading ... but you don't get anything for nothing. You'll have to give up a couple of star players (and possibly more) in exchange. So you'll still be 3 to 5 star players short of a good team.
The only way to build a decent team is by drafting the best youngsters you can find and developing them into star players.
Trading is mug's game. Who needs other clubs' rejects?
**floreat pica**
There is a fundamental flaw in what you're saying.
You say we're 3 to 5 star players short of a decent team (I don't think we're that bad, by the way) But even if you're right, trading solves nothing. You might pick up a couple of star players by trading ... but you don't get anything for nothing. You'll have to give up a couple of star players (and possibly more) in exchange. So you'll still be 3 to 5 star players short of a good team.
The only way to build a decent team is by drafting the best youngsters you can find and developing them into star players.
Trading is mug's game. Who needs other clubs' rejects?
**floreat pica**
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London Dave
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BINGO Alf...hit it right on the head. We will, in all probability, not win the flag next year, though I hope we do. What MM & co are doing, I figure (and hope), is to build up the club to where we have sustained success. You can buy it or trade to it. It comes from the ground up. It'll take time because we were a laughing stock and a joke a few years ago.
Journey of 1000 miles starts with one step, and continues that way too.
Journey of 1000 miles starts with one step, and continues that way too.
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MarkT
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- Location: Melb
Sorry guys, I can't agree.
I don't believe it is likely you will build a premiership team with drafting alone. If you just do the maths, starting from where we were 2 years ago with minmal quality you would have to draft 4 very good players each year for 5 years to bulid a list that still had some very young and underdeveloped players. History says it's impossible to darft that well anyway.
Essendon has bulit the best list in the league by drafting well and trading very well. Trading v Drafting has to viwed in light of the strengths and weaknesses of your list and what is available in the draft v what orther clubs can offer. Good trade deals involve giving up qualty where you have a surplus for quality in a position you can't cover from your own resources.
I don't believe it is likely you will build a premiership team with drafting alone. If you just do the maths, starting from where we were 2 years ago with minmal quality you would have to draft 4 very good players each year for 5 years to bulid a list that still had some very young and underdeveloped players. History says it's impossible to darft that well anyway.
Essendon has bulit the best list in the league by drafting well and trading very well. Trading v Drafting has to viwed in light of the strengths and weaknesses of your list and what is available in the draft v what orther clubs can offer. Good trade deals involve giving up qualty where you have a surplus for quality in a position you can't cover from your own resources.
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Brown26
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3 - 5 players short. A ruckman - FRASER! a full back PRESTI (very underated) a CHB KINNEAR a decent onballer? I question this one cause I ask you which category Buckley, OBree, Licca the list goes on fall into? And Didak, don't forget. We also have Cloak coming through - maybe not a premiership winning team next year, but for years to come they are. Would you trade a 2002 premiership for 2003,4 and 5?
Interesting thought.
Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....
Interesting thought.
Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....
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MarkT
- Posts: 1350
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:01 pm
- Location: Melb
Interesting question Brown26.
I would trade a premiership in 2002 for a chance in 2003,4,5 because you can never be sure 2003,4,5 will eventuate. I wouldn't sacrifice the long term for the short term if that is your real question. But if we could greately enhance the chance of a premiership next year at the cost an equally reduced chance for the next 3 I would do it without hesitation. I would then work hard on the next 3 years.
Take the flag when you can get it. Of all peoiple, we Collingwood supporters should appreciate how hard they are to win.
In the end these are all hypothetical question which are unrealistic in their simplicity. It is striking a balance which is bot the improtant thing and the most difficult.
I would trade a premiership in 2002 for a chance in 2003,4,5 because you can never be sure 2003,4,5 will eventuate. I wouldn't sacrifice the long term for the short term if that is your real question. But if we could greately enhance the chance of a premiership next year at the cost an equally reduced chance for the next 3 I would do it without hesitation. I would then work hard on the next 3 years.
Take the flag when you can get it. Of all peoiple, we Collingwood supporters should appreciate how hard they are to win.
In the end these are all hypothetical question which are unrealistic in their simplicity. It is striking a balance which is bot the improtant thing and the most difficult.
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JiMc
Millane 42 wrote:
"We need a fullback, ruckman, quality on-baller and centre half-back. Realistically no-one can argue with this. All these types of players were on offer. Why - if we have finances, good prospects, coach,etc, - can't we attract players??"
Some people (not necessarily you Millane42) cant get it into their thick skulls that you cant offer "VFL standard" players and expect to get AFL stars in return with the blessing of the opposition club.
You can attract as much as you like but unless you provide the opposing club with adequate compensation then "it aint gonna happen". Period, end of story.
The following players were mentioned extensively over the last week.
Ruckman - Everitt. Remember "still under contract". St Kilda wanted our 1st and 2nd round picks and "quality" players. And rightly so if there isnt a fear of loosing him for nothing in a preseason draft.
Ruckman - Porter. Who do we give to Carlton? McKee, Rocca or Fraser? Carlton wanted a forward/ruckman in return. Aside from Josh or Rocca we dont have a spare one.
Onballer - Misiti. Essendon also wanted 1st round picks and players. Was a done deal but Essendon pulled out the last minute over the draft picks on offer by Collingwood. Maybe they had a change of heart and want to keep him now.
On Baller - Heath Black. Found the club too professional and intense. Obviously wanted the easy life at Moorabbin to kick back, relax a little. Its been a hard life over in the west with Freo, so he needs a year or two to rest. Missed going out boozing with his mates...so it will be like old times down there at St Kilda. Anyway I dont think he is worth the money he wanted.
CHB - Croad. Well aside from the fact he wanted to go to Essendon, Hawthorn wanted pick 1. Well incase people werent aware, we didnt have pick 1. Maybe we should have traded Buckley to Freo to get pick 1 and then offloaded it to Hawthorn for Croad.
I cant recall a fullback being on offer though. Most clubs are crying out for one let alone willing to give one up.
I think some of you need to get down from the clouds. The high altitude and lack of oxygen is affecting your thought processes.
The cheque book days disappeared years ago.
gO pIeS
"We need a fullback, ruckman, quality on-baller and centre half-back. Realistically no-one can argue with this. All these types of players were on offer. Why - if we have finances, good prospects, coach,etc, - can't we attract players??"
Some people (not necessarily you Millane42) cant get it into their thick skulls that you cant offer "VFL standard" players and expect to get AFL stars in return with the blessing of the opposition club.
You can attract as much as you like but unless you provide the opposing club with adequate compensation then "it aint gonna happen". Period, end of story.
The following players were mentioned extensively over the last week.
Ruckman - Everitt. Remember "still under contract". St Kilda wanted our 1st and 2nd round picks and "quality" players. And rightly so if there isnt a fear of loosing him for nothing in a preseason draft.
Ruckman - Porter. Who do we give to Carlton? McKee, Rocca or Fraser? Carlton wanted a forward/ruckman in return. Aside from Josh or Rocca we dont have a spare one.
Onballer - Misiti. Essendon also wanted 1st round picks and players. Was a done deal but Essendon pulled out the last minute over the draft picks on offer by Collingwood. Maybe they had a change of heart and want to keep him now.
On Baller - Heath Black. Found the club too professional and intense. Obviously wanted the easy life at Moorabbin to kick back, relax a little. Its been a hard life over in the west with Freo, so he needs a year or two to rest. Missed going out boozing with his mates...so it will be like old times down there at St Kilda. Anyway I dont think he is worth the money he wanted.
CHB - Croad. Well aside from the fact he wanted to go to Essendon, Hawthorn wanted pick 1. Well incase people werent aware, we didnt have pick 1. Maybe we should have traded Buckley to Freo to get pick 1 and then offloaded it to Hawthorn for Croad.
I cant recall a fullback being on offer though. Most clubs are crying out for one let alone willing to give one up.
I think some of you need to get down from the clouds. The high altitude and lack of oxygen is affecting your thought processes.
The cheque book days disappeared years ago.
gO pIeS