Buckley better than Carey.

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Tue Mar 28, 2000 9:30 pm

From the onset, I'll concede that Carey's a great player, but I think he's been overrated as the "Number One Player in the Game."

97-98, as affirmed by the Brownlow, Robert Harvey was by far the best player in the League. Carey may have gotten over him last year simply because of Harvey's constant injuries, but in all his years of being the alleged "Number One Player in the Game," Carey's never won a Brownlow, nor ever really gotten close to winning one, and his performances in 4 Grand Finals have been mediocre to say the least. His "choking" (and he choked in this year's night Grand Final, also) singlehandedly cost the Roos the Flag against Adelaide - particularly more so if he's to be considered so significant a player.

Another thing with Carey is that every time he lines up on Jakovich, you can expect him to get an absolute towelling. I think Carey's only beaten Jakovich once (when Jakovich was returning from injury), whereas on every other occasion Jakovich has absolutely trounced him (and did so again in Round 1 of this year). Pagan may as well save himself the trouble of putting Carey out there at CHF for all the good he does against Jakovich.

Also, I think Forwards have to do a lot more to justify their rating in the Top 5. Carey's prolific because of "Pagan's Paddock" and the way the Roos' game is structured almost solely around him. If he was played in a more conventional forward structure, I don't think Carey would rate within a sniff of Dermott Brereton (or even Phil Carman) in his peak.

As I said, I concede Carey's a great player but I think his constant ranking at Number One is unjustified.

Now that Nathan Buckley's in a far more complimentary team, I think you'll see this guy skyrocket into the stratosphere as far as rankings go. Previously, he had to do all the work for himself and most of his reciprocal possessions came when he gave off the ball, ran forward, and called for it back.

As evidenced this year, (I'd put him at 6 Brownlow Votes - 2 against Hawthorn with Pebbles getting 3 that game, 3 against Adelaide and 1 against Carlton), now that he's allowed to run off the play and also be the recipient of possessions instead of always getting it for himself, he's being a far more damaging player (as his forays up forward have proven - from memory, he has 7.10 for the Season!), whereas prior he was let down by the efficiency around him.

In a poor team he blitzed and in a better team he's shining even brighter, putting paid to the comment that he only shone because he was in a bad team (in 1999). This guy's the consummate footballer, with only his accuracy at goal really needing work. Then again, I see a match (hopefully against the Roos) where he and the Roccas all kick accurately and kick 20 between them.

Like Robert Harvey, Nathan Buckley's going to dominate the game on a plateau far above the standard of Wayne Carey. And unlike Carey - who always has his "quiet ones" against Jakovich and, like Pete Sampras, always seems to be carrying a injury when he plays poorly - there'll never be any one player who gets the better of him consistently.

My only fear is that with the standard he's set, he'll need to get 40 possessions and kick 3 goals before Umpires consider him worth 3 Brownlow Votes. Against Carlton he had 26 kicks, 8 handballs, kicked 1.3 and took 5 marks and he was considered to have a "quieter" game.

Heaven help the Team he plays a "blinder" against!

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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:14 pm

I've always thought Buckley has been great player (as has everyone else), I thought he should have been rated bset player this year, as he would have won the brownlow if hadn't missed those 6 games..HE CAME SECOND IN THE BROWNLOW!! And this was from a team that finished last, and a player tha missed six games. Now come on, he is clearly the best player at the moment. Now, I don't want to go overboard, but Buckley has a fair few years in him yet, and the team is on the improve....hopefully he will achieve multiple brownlows. Anyway, I also agree that Carey is a great player, however his games is very limited (basically to one position) and Buckley can basically play everywhere and win. That fact alone should point to just how good Buckley is!

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:15 pm

Sorry about the gramma mistakes people!

I@n S · Post by **I@n S** » Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:36 pm

Hey, Sly you've copyed my section that was already about this. lol oh well.
Go Pies

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:39 pm

I did? Which section?

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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

ytry4 · Post by **ytry4** » Thu Mar 30, 2000 12:37 am

Great comments Sly...but it would work better if you could call talkback radio and tell those footy 'experts' who is better!

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:36 am

I agree Carey is a Champion, but he's also the Pete Sampras of football. Whenever he fails, he's carrying an injury. Damian Barrett even went as far to say that his non-influence against the Tigers was because he was playing with "one arm." Well if he's that bad off, he shouldn't be in the damn Team.

On Carey, though, that whole Kangaroo's Team is structured to provide and accentuate his influence upon a game with "Pagan's Paddock." If he played a far more conventional CHF-role, his influence - and the Roos goalscoring power - would be far lessened.

While he's a great player, in the CHF-scheme of things, I don't think he's a patch on Dermott Brereton (who proved himself an intense pressure player and thrived in Finals of any kind) or even Phil Carman. Both these guys played the traditional CHF-role and dominated, something I couldn't see Carey doing often without "Pagan's Paddock."

Yes, Carey is a Champion, but outright Number One is going a little too far.

And let's not forget, in 98 Buckley played on him and also gave him a towelling!

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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:42 pm

Look, everyone is going to have their own opinions on who exactly is the best footballer in the land, be it Bucks or anyone else. The fact is though, that opinions such as Blighty, ther err (Michael Sheahan), and all others are starting to believe that he is truely the number one player in our game, Blighty had said until last week that Buckley surely couldn't be the number 1 player in such a low team, but this week it seemed that his opinion in now swaying, I think I even heard Mike Sheahan call Collingwood a great team (he said something like, "now that buckley's playing in a great team, can he be the best footballer in the AFL?". Not the same words but you get the idea anyway. Anway I'm starting to really crap on now, so I'll finish and say.....GO PIES!!!!!!

P.S. Read my signature, would Carey every say something like that?

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:43 pm

Look, everyone is going to have their own opinions on who exactly is the best footballer in the land, be it Bucks or anyone else. The fact is though, that opinions such as Blighty, ther err (Michael Sheahan), and all others are starting to believe that he is truely the number one player in our game, Blighty had said until last week that Buckley surely couldn't be the number 1 player in such a low team, but this week it seemed that his opinion in now swaying, I think I even heard Mike Sheahan call Collingwood a great team (he said something like, "now that buckley's playing in a great team, can he be the best footballer in the AFL?". Not the same words but you get the idea anyway. Anway I'm starting to really crap on now, so I'll finish and say.....GO PIES!!!!!!

P.S. Read my signature, would Carey every say something like that?

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:55 pm

Look, everyone is going to have their own opinions on who exactly is the best footballer in the land, be it Bucks or anyone else. The fact is though, that opinions such as Blighty, ther err (Michael Sheahan), and all others are starting to believe that he is truely the number one player in our game, Blighty had said until last week that Buckley surely couldn't be the number 1 player in such a low team, but this week it seemed that his opinion in now swaying, I think I even heard Mike Sheahan call Collingwood a great team (he said something like, "now that buckley's playing in a great team, can he be the best footballer in the AFL?". Not the same words but you get the idea anyway. Anway I'm starting to really crap on now, so I'll finish and say.....GO PIES!!!!!!

P.S. Read my signature, would Carey every say something like that?

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CARN THE PIES!!!!!
Collingwood is all about togetherness. "We live or die as a side," Buckley said. "Everything we do now is as a team."

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Thu Mar 30, 2000 4:04 pm

Um Sorry about all the posts, it stuffed up heaps nad I didn't know it sent in 4 times...oops!

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CARN THE PIES!!!!!
Collingwood is all about togetherness. "We live or die as a side," Buckley said. "Everything we do now is as a team."

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Buckley better than Carey.

Buckley better than Carey.