#25 Josh Fraser

[MarkT]

Josh isn't much of a ruckman. Mind you not many players are good at the ruck craft at 18 to 21. My biggest issue from a long term perspective is he doesn't jump high and he doesn't have a strong body to ruck in the alternative manner. He can't jump high enough, he isn't string enough and his ruck and tap technique is poor.

What he does have going for him is a good football brain and great agility for his height. He needs to be able to use his strengths and not his weaknesses which he has to do in the ruck. He is a unique player and using him in conventional roles counters his uniqueness and therefore makes him merely a tall who isn't strong overhead. I'd use him as a forward with license to run the arse off his opponent, make position as a link man up the ground and takes his forward marks floating back toward goal while he works on a bit more strength. I'd play him as a fourth tall forward who is also a second follower in effect. Richards can play the drop back ruckman and Josh the forward of the ball ruckman. That also opens the forward line a bit. It makes Josh a very tough matchup. If you put someone too short on him you drop Josh back to the square and bring the FF (Ant.) out a bit.

[MagpieDynasty]

Tend to agree with your assessment MarkT. Play him as a fourth forward and or give him license as a Ruck Rover. His ability to run out a game is proven and I don't think there are too many opposition players similar in stature to go with him for a full game.

[Cam]

Who was our best player in the ill-fated 2003 Grand Final?

[MarkT]

Burns or Fraser. Josh was beaten pointless in the ruck.

[Cam]

Beaten pointless in 2003? Dunno about that.

Fraser - 21 Hitouts
Walker - 5 Hitouts
Cloke - 3 Hitouts
Rocca - 0 Hitouts*

Keating - 27 Hitouts
Charman - 24 Hitouts

There be the problem. Our second strings didn't do enough.

Would you say he was beaten pointless if Richards had played and had 21 as well for example...?

2002 Grand Final he was beaten pointless yes.

Fraser 2 Hitouts
McKee 14 Hitouts
Rocca 6 Hitouts

Keating 39 Hitouts
White 5 Hitouts

[d9 tank]

Those are just stats Cam. Have a look at what Keating did with his hit-outs compared to what Josh achieved.

He was well and truly murdered in the ruck from the very first bounce.

[Pa Marmo]

I cant believe all the talk about Fraser. There is not a single person bearing down his neck. Josh is as safe at collingwood as Bucks is. Thae kid has heart and great talent and will become a magnificent key forward type now Richards is maturing into his role. Fraser is exactly the type we want at the club. He is a fighter and seems to have a good footy brain. It makes me laugh at trade time with all the talk of putting him up for trade, like that will ever happen.

[mgh3536]

Like him to hold a few more more marks, play as a tall forward, 2-3 a game thanks very much.

[BHPIE]

Well said nuxta ,Josh is the least of our worries.

[cooldewd]

Well said nuxta ,Josh is the least of our worries.

Exactly that myopic attitude as to why we fail when it matters.

Near enough is good enough.

[Member]

yes the are only stats D9 but fraser was only beaten in the hitouts in the 2003 GF

keating has much more mature body than fraser and also has had a wonderfull midfield to take advantage of his hitouts

he is serioiusly lucky he has so many good players covering for him around the ground

but fraser beat charman and keating around the ground that day pity the rest of our group didnt do anything to support him

in fact what support did fraser have on that day

walker? give me a break

[d9 tank]

Yes, but we're not talking about around the ground. Cam was specifically talking about ruck work.

[Member]

fair enough d9

[HAL]

I do not understand.

[lethalburns]

If you watch Josh when he rucks, he takes his eyes off the ball and watches the ruckman coming towards him. He was penalised against Port Adelaide more than once because the umpie caught him playing the man instead of the ball. You cant blame the kid, he doesnt have the frame to take the punishment these bigger boys can give out in the ruck.

I agree with MarkT in almost every regard. However he can jump. He has taken some great marks off a very small run up... I think he knows he is not physically strong enough for the position and approaches it with the attitude that he is going to get punished - which affects his ability to ruck well.