#25 Josh Fraser

[2005PIES]

The logical choice for our next captain would have to be Pebble's.

Does anyone know his win loss ratio? (please advise me), i am certain it

would be fantastic.

[Warbler]

Sure Josh has his deficiencies , but there are only just so many Buckleys , Hirds , and Vosses .
I've thought him a future captain for years - and still do .

[Cannibal]

Whether Josh ever becomes club captain isn't exactly the biggest issue in the world right now. Most people criticise him because, despite the fact that he's our first choice ruckman, they deem him not to be effective enough but that just goes to show how little some people think about the game.

Josh was drafted in 1999, made his debut in 2000 and has been an automatic selection ever since. He turned 23 on the 5th of this month. It's a widely accepted fact that big men take longer to develop than other players and ruckmen, more than any. It's also a widely accepted fact that a ruckman doesn't come into his own until he's 25, meaning Josh has another two years to go before he starts to hit his prime.

By comparision, Clark Keating was drafted by Brisbane in 1991 and didn't make his debut until 1996. He will turn 29 on the 19th of March. Steven King was drafted by Geelong in 1994 and made his debut in 1995. He has just turned 28.

Josh is 202cm and 97kg (probably heavier as this is last year's stat) and stacks up nicely against these two guys, who are 197cm/102kg and 202cm/105kg, except in the obvious factor of weight. I can't see any reason why Josh can't hit the 100kg mark over the next year or two, which would only increase his effectiveness at the centre bounces against these big men. However, IMO, Josh is far more effective around the ground which, to my way of thinking, is a far greater advantage in the more mobile modern game than being a tapout specialist.

The guy I compare Josh to the most, however, is Jeff White, another mobile ruckman and, IMO, Josh stacks up very well against him. White is 195cm/95kg and made All-Australian last year. He's also 28, having been drafted by Freo (as pick 1) in 1994, making his debut the following year. He's also a guy who has received a helluva bucketing at times and, many times, that criticism has been neither deserved nor fair.

If you stack Josh up against these three guys, another factor stands out - he so bloody young compared to them and, yet, so many of you think he should be just as good as them! He has only half their experience, FFS! Is there some reason why so many of you don't like the guy and can't just wait patiently for him to mature? In two years time, Keating and maybe White, might be gone or certainly in the twilight of their careers. IMO, Josh has developed extraordinarily well and is on track to become the premier ruckman in the league.

All this crap talk about bunging him out on a wing, or as a ruck-rover FFS, is making me sick. Give him a fair go. He'll be a champion ruckman soon enough and I'll take great pleasure in whacking on a "told you so!" thread when he wins All-Australian selection, the Brownlow and Norm Smith medals and takes home the Premiership cup in the same season.

[3rd degree]

Josh Fraser is definitely Collingwood's next captain! I think he is too heavily criticised. His work ethic as an around the ground ruckman is highly underrated and should be given the respect he deserves he has also taken some hangers that would make the old owner of the 25 Billy Picken Proud. But maybe Josh should start talking to himself like Billy used to and get it on the umpires mic, so long as he doesn't get a 50 against himself for talking to his own head.

[35forever]

Geez were being a bit hard on Josh. Sure he has some deficiencies, but we're a fair way from seeing the best of Josh yet. I'm a little surprised he didnt bulk up a bit over the break, but the way he came back & kicked one late after the ump tried to destroy him showed a great deal of maturity & mental strength.

Josh also seems to be a player who is at his best when the rest of the side is down. Several times last year he was our only shining light.

As for the captaincy, I see several others in the queue ahead of him, particularly Scotty, Licca, Jimmy, maybe Pebbles, and even Johnno (long term).

But mainly, lets hope the question doesnt come up for at least two more years! And lets also hope we never do that revolving captaincy crap the Faints do.

[bokka]

I expect the new ruck rule will be a boon for Josh.

[Johnson#26]

The guy I compare Josh to the most, however, is Jeff White, another mobile ruckman and, IMO, Josh stacks up very well against him. White is 195cm/95kg and made All-Australian last year. He's also 28, having been drafted by Freo (as pick 1) in 1994, making his debut the following year. He's also a guy who has received a helluva bucketing at times and, many times, that criticism has been neither deserved nor fair.

Great post Cannibal. The comparisons with Jeff White are amazing. He did sturggle at Fremantle for a few seasons, before finally stamping his mark on the AFL in about 2000. You'd think that Fraser has hit that stage about now. Now, we all know White has endured his bad patches at times, but he has generally been one of the best ruckmen of the past five years, and I'm sure Fraser may stamp his mark in a similar fashion...

...albeit as a forward. With Richards starring as a ruckman, Fraser will be released as the 3rd tall forward - what a handful for the opposition - Tarrant, Rocca, Cameron Cloke and Josh Fraser! How do you counter then, as well as Bill Morrison and Tommy Davidson who are due to get a run midseason. Now that is a very top heavy forward set up, but, at the Telstra Dome/a warm, dry day at the MCG (September anyone?) no one will stop them, with Didak, Davis, Caracella and the midfielders Buckley, Burns, Licuria and Woewodin dashing through for the crumbing goals. Unbeatable forward line. And it suits the dry weather of that one day in September!

Do people honestly see Fraser as our number one ruckman? I see it as:

1: Richards
2: Fraser
3: Cameron Cloke
4: Tristan Walker/Brent Hall
5: Anthony Rocca

A far cry from the days of:

1: McKee
2: Fraser
3: Richardson
4: Sav Rocca
5: Anthony Rocca

All going well we are on track for September. Fraser is due for a big season this year, and we all know how talented he is - a possible All-Australian.

[3rd degree]

Please Johno don't start talking about "The Giraffe" Mark Richardson I'll start having nightmares again!

[DaVe86]

Nah i still think Josh will eventually settle down as our number 1 ruckman, it all depends on when he can bulk up. The new ruck rules should suit him this year as other ruckman dont get as much of a run up and it allows Fraser to show off his big leap.

[Johnson#26]

If he does Dave, then where do you expec Richards to play?

[3rd degree]

Richards should be a tall running back pocket, preferably on Matera!

[DaVe86]

If he does Dave, then where do you expec Richards to play?

All teams need two specialist ruckman. And Richards is only in his second year so he wont peak for a few years after fraser if all goes to plan.

[Johnson#26]

Richards isn't really in his second year. Its really his 5th year. He was drafted at pick 37 at the 2000 National Draft.

[3rd degree]

MM has said before what a great combination Richards and Fraser will be I think he's right. Richards has also shown he might be handy occassionally up forward too. apparently he's looking foward to locking horns with Spider when we play the dawks!

[DaVe86]

ah fair enough i didnt no richards had been around that long. Its an interesting topic but because we have two ruckman with a load of potential yet are both a bit skinny at the moment. One will have to fill the role of the permanent ruck position, but then what do we do with the other one? Our forward line is filling up with C2 and C3 as well as Tex and Davidson pushing for selection. The argument in favour of Richards in the ruck is that there is probably no where else to play him, where as josh can hold down a forward position. But id still prefer to see cloke up forward because he is a better contested mark. Its a tough decision but with the new ruck rules this year, a lot will be revealed about the future of these two players. For me, although i have been critical of josh, i want him as our number 1 ruckman just because i think he is a better "all-round" footballer, and his versatility troubles other ruckman. Although he may not win in the ruck, it is hard for a tall ruckman to match him up around the ground. Its just a matter of which player will make the ruck their own this year. FOr the other, automatic selection may not be definate.