#24 Tarkyn Lockyer

[AnthonyC]

Now Cam, it is not a crime and you're entitled to your opinion. I was merely presenting the facts (err statistics same thing? maybe not). BTW I agree most of his kick-ins are short, I'm only commenting that he has a small turnover figure (6% total, 4% of which are long kick-ins) he does not miss the target very often. Whether or not it is effective in creating play is another matter, BTW have you seen our options sometimes, I think this is where we fall down a lot.

Go Pies!

[Murray]

Cam exactly the point I was trying to make to Abi.
You debate the issue on its merits, no animosity, no personal attacks and as a result your argument is very strong and persuasive.
BTW great research old son, I am blody impressed.

DARE TO STRUGGLE - DARE TO WIN

[JLC]

Well in my opinion it takes two to tango. Just because a Collingwood player did not mark the ball it does not mean it was Lockyers fault or a bad kick. Who knows the player calling for the ball may have spilt the mark or their may be other circumstances.

My first choice is still to go with Lockyer on the kick outs. Sure he may make the occassional blue now and again but when you take that many kick outs you are prone to turnover one or two. But overall i think Lockyer does a very good job as taking the kick outs is a very difficult task.

jlc

Essendon 2000 premiers
2001 runners up
2002 fifth
2003 ????
The slide continues

[AnthonyC]

You can argue this both ways. The FACTS are only 7/127 kick-ins by Tarks were direct turnovers. The fact that the majority of his kicks may have been short is beside the point.

Quote from Murray:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
It is a fact that on kick ins Tarks misses the target frequently.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Murray this is simply not true. I agree with your other points.

From what you write do you insinuate that there are personal attacks on Cam (from myself)? If you do then I don't see the attack, and as a matter of fact I think Cam makes some excellent points. BTW Murray this isn't an attack on you either.


Go Pies!

[Joel]

Murray - There have been <FONT size="5">NO</FONT s> personal attacks on Abi. Everyone has their opinions which they are allowed to present. It seems you want open conversation and the like, however, when people disagree they are attacking a person personally? I'm sorry but I don't agree. Just as Abi is allowed to present their point of view, so is everybody else. No one has been particularly harsh, and all of their points of view have been valid, similarly, Abi's points are also valid.

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 14 November 2002).]

[AnthonyC]

Actually, Joel, in Murray's defence someone did say something like Abi's comments were the statement of a Richard head.

Go Pies!

[Murray]

AnthonyC - No I didn't suggest anything of the sort mate. It was in relation to comments that were made to Abi.
Joel - stop shouting and read the post
How about "Abi this is the statement of a Dickhead" and "Your dribble"and "Take a guess Sherlock" and so on.
You seem to have fairly selective reading and a Mod should have stepped in and prevented the personal attacks.

Sorry Joel just noticed you are a Mod this week - what do you say my boy are those sorts of attacks allowed this week? I'm making a small list of what is allowed and what is not allowed by each mod, as was suggested to me by Mike some months ago.

DARE TO STRUGGLE - DARE TO WIN

[This message has been edited by Murray (edited 14 November 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Murray (edited 14 November 2002).]

[Joel]

Murray the post about being called that has been edited, I missed it first time around.

I'm not going to become a dictorial mod and edit a post just because someone says, 'Your dribble'. Some stuff should be taken on the chin.

BTW, sorry for missing it the first time.

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[Joel]

Furthermore, it might be a good idea to PM the mods if you see a post you do not like, because we won't always pick everything up.

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[Blanch]

Nothing wrong with Richard Head is there? He's a nice bloke from memory. I only met him 2 years ago and I can't imagine him changing that much.

We are all Richard Heads at some stage - very different to the phrase "dickhead" don't you think? Accept it. Feel free to call me a Richard Head if I act like one or post like one. I won't see it as personal, just maybe time to review my opinion on things. Being over the age of 11, I can see that deep down we all have a common goal here - Collingwood. So then why would someone with a common goal call me a Richard Head. We will never all agree but I'd take the so called "personal attacks" as time to review my opinions and then probably agree to disagree.


My oxygen is Collingwood. Without it I die.

[Murray]

No worries Joel, keep up the good work - and Joel I really mean that OK.

DARE TO STRUGGLE - DARE TO WIN

[Brown26]

Murray - excellent idea, however you'll have to be careful that you check to see if it has been moderated since you saw it, ie. you saw a 'moderatable' post before the mods got to it, for example, Joel did not see those things before they were moderated, you did. Something to keep in mind.

- Ben

Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

[Murray]

Thanks Ben

DARE TO STRUGGLE - DARE TO WIN

[Joel]

Good. Just remember, we do our best.

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 14 November 2002).]

[Abi]

I actually didn't take offence at the personal attacks, more the fact that my arguments were taken by most to be baseless. It's fine providing statistics, but remember they sometimes lie. Being analytical also requires being at the match and making objective assessments based on what you witness. Cam actually provided a more reasoned argument by actually breaking down and dissecting the statistics. My point, without even examining the stats was that we gain very little through Tarks' short kicks. Anyone can kick short to the man in the pocket, as the way oppositions set up there is always someone stationed there. He often gets jammed, and contrary to what others have said, it doesn't necessarily lead to a constructive next piece of play. We are more creative on kick-ins when the likes of Clement are more adventurous and kick long and with precision. And who could forget some of Bucks' efforts which resulted in goals to us within ten or so seconds. This is where you gain from the kick-in. Even McGough could hit the man in the pocket from fullback.

Pie fan forever