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DaVe86 wrote:Ive never been a huge fan of josh...in fact 2 years ago i started a thread called "Trade Josh Fraser" or something like that and i copped the most abuse i ever have in my life.
Last year, i was proved wrong. Josh did more than stand up last year...he imposed himself on the AFL. Despite to this day not been a fantastic tap ruckman, his ability around the ground makes him at time just as dangerous as Dean Cox. He also found consistency last year.
This year has been very very poor from Josh. He is out of touch. However i do think he was badly injured against the Eagles and is feeling very flat. He did not run on Friday night and barely made an impact against Simmonds in teh ruck...in fact Guy Richards did quite a good job at times in the ruck (but again showed how much of a dud he is aroudn the ground)
Josh should be rested somewhere during the season. Not yet as we are so undermanned, but he should be given a break and Bryan should be tested somewhere. Essendon could be a good idea to try Bryan as they usually play Hille, Laycock and Ryder, but we must find a game where josh is rested completely.
My problem with josh is his aerial skills. Although he can take some good marks, he is not a good contested mark as he has a light frame and is easily displaced in a contest.
I am amazed at the amount of people calling for him to be a permanent forward. He would be a total waste in this position. He cannot take contested marks, he is a 50/50 shot on goal, and although been quick for his height, is not quick for a modern day forward. A good defender like a Rutten, Scarlett or Glass would eat him up...so would most teams 2nd rate defender.
His ability comes from being an attacking ruckman. He is quicker and more agile than just about anyone in the league for his height...including Cox...and when he goes forward, his opponent cant go with him and he finds himself in space and is able to penetrate on the lead.
He puffs out because he runs so much for a ruckman...something he has not done this year admittingly. But his workrate is top rate usually. If Richards finally comes through, it will be an enormous boost for Josh who can have more breaks on the bench or up forward with a mis-match.
Im sure Josh will stand up this year again, but he is carrying something at the moment. The next 2 weeks will be telling as we play Saturday, then again on Wednesday infront of 90 thousand. However he should get a good rest after that.
Really dissapointed to hear you say that about Josh dave..
We're talking about a guy who never stops trying once he runs onto the ground.. he's been a marvellous player for collingwood and will continue to be!!
Give me blokes like Josh Fraser any day!!
Neil Appleby wrote:I've watched Josh over the last 6 years and continue to be disappointed.
He still teases us with a little bit of brilliance every so often and then he goes missing....completely. His first half against the Kangas was pitiful.
Against Richmond he had no influence in the first half and yet did well in the second half.
The thing is, he is not a young hopeful, he was our acting captain and yet Rocca appeared to do all the yapping and encouraging.
Josh just lacks consistent intensity and I find myself screaming at the TV for him to impose himself.
He shouldn't ever be considered for captain.
Is he an untouchable now?
He should be high on our trading list in my opinion.
I've run out of patience Josh.
Josh's problem is that he was a number 1 draft pick. Why do people associate it with having to be an outstanding player...He isn't our worst player.
Tradition? Pfft you call merging with Fitzroy and cheatin to 3 flags Tradition? Winning 4 flags in a row is history, which makes tradition!
Tess wrote:I actually started the same discussion last week. The same people are once again avoiding the actual issue.
More like you are actually ignoring the reality of his 2003 and 2006 seasons. Not to mention you began your discussion with a straw man--that fact that he's not some mega super star. Most of us haven't expected that from him for years.
Good solid footy is all we need from him, and as said above he is a proven big game performer, though you may have conveniently deleted those games from your memory.
He is injured, and one of our best and most important players. It amazes me that people who follow collingwood bag out Josh. What you see is what you get and when he is fit theres not many better.
I rate players on how they measure up in the big games- especially finals football - which is why I rate Billy Picken as one of our best ever players. In both the 2002 and 2003 Grand finals Josh stood tall and delivered, which is more than I can say for Tarrant who let us down both times. Josh is obviously hampered by a hip complaint at present, but when he is at the centre bounce, he is still having an impact. Remember it's a long season, and we need to have him in top condition and form not in April but in September. Get off his back.
fair point rudeboy, no doubt he stands up in the big games and is crucial in September. However, this year September action is no guarentee, and with such big names out of our side, we really need him standing up at the moment if we are going to make september.
He is injured at the moment, but theres a big 2 weeks ahead of him and we need him at his best, because he is a brilliant player.
There's more to life than footy.........just not much more.
I thought I'd cop a spray for my views; never worries me if I believe I'm right. As for placing me on your ignore list......should I be particularly upset by that Joff?
This is a forum for Collingwood fans to express ideas, popular or not.
As for being negative, I think 90% of my postings over the past 7-8 years have been very positive.
As one of the original members here I think I've earned the right to express an opinion and just to remind you, if I have a problem with any posters here I deal with them in a fair and reasonable manner; I don't attack like a pit bull and chirlishly place them on an ignore list.
Neil Appleby wrote:I thought I'd cop a spray for my views; never worries me if I believe I'm right. As for placing me on your ignore list......should I be particularly upset by that Joff?
This is a forum for Collingwood fans to express ideas, popular or not.
As for being negative, I think 90% of my postings over the past 7-8 years have been very positive.
As one of the original members here I think I've earned the right to express an opinion and just to remind you, if I have a problem with any posters here I deal with them in a fair and reasonable manner; I don't attack like a pit bull and chirlishly place them on an ignore list.
I'm a great fan of Josh's, but I reckon you've got as much right as anyone to question his performances.
I think you made an excellent point RudeBoy regarding Josh in finals.
We always hear about players being judged by how good they are in finals; Josh did stand up ........it's just expectations I guess......I suppose I keep waiting for Josh to become an imposing game breaker and it doesn't happen.
Josh is a Dean Cox and if you would give me an option at which Ruckman out of the whole AFL i would want i would choose Fraser.
I know that sounds completly biased but Dean Cox looks so fantastic because he has a great second string ruckman in Seaby and one of the best midfields we have seen in decades.
What has Josh got? Guy Richards, who has played no more than what 30 games in 5 or 6 years and at the best of times struggles to hold his own in this modern game around the ground (however i believe he has improved this season).
Hes also got Chris Bryan, who hasnt even had a run in the Black and White.
This gives MM no option but to run Josh tirelessly through the middle week in week out.
For a midfield, yes hes had Buckley, but not so much in the last three - four years. Scotty Burns, Shane O'Bree, Paul Licuria. With all due respect they arnt up their with the likes of Judd, Kerr and Cousins. Two Brownlow medalist and Daniel Kerr came one vote behind Ben in 05, (however Burnsy, Cheesy and Licca have done exceptional jobs in the middle.) Also note the great depth of that midfield of the Eagles, compared to ours.
Give Joshy the Eagles midfield and a great backup ruck and he will be an all australian too.
Hes played 136 games and kicked 120 goals, not a bad return from a Ruckman and averages around 17, 18 disposals a game. He acts as an extra midfielder, with the natural ability of a wingman. Plugs up holes and makes himself dangerous around the goals.
For me, his output has been outstanding and as he heads into the prime of his career in the next three four seasons he will remain to do so at the Collingwood football club.
