Can some of you Pie fans who went to the Richmond game please give your assessment of the players performance. I live in Perth and we rarely get to see the game and can only go by the stats.
Anthony Rocca got a fair bit of the ball, did he go alright?
Rupert Betheras was listed in the best players, despite only getting 13 touches (I like Rupert, he da man)
I couldn't believe Shane Watson was selected but he got 18 touches, did he actually play alright???
Anyway could someone please post some more info.
And while i don't think it's a good idea to keep changing the side around, surely Tarkyn Lockyer and Jamie Tape have gotta be close to being selected. Oh yer and whatever you do Collingwood, please don't bring back Scott "the crab" Crow.
Mr. Plow Out
Richmond Game????
Moderator: bbmods
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Mick
For Bokka & MrPlow .....
Monkhorst - outplayed by 2 mobile kids - threatened to knock Aaron James block off - it would have been his best effort all year.
King - got a lot of it but wrong foots our side by stepping back, running in circles - good fringe player but given his build and foot skills won't get much better than this.
Orhcard - few touches - probably his worst game but he is a positive for the year - the type of reject we should be picking up (he would still be in the Sydney side).
Wild - reached new levels of ineptitude - even for him - got dragged (to a standing ovation) and then put back on in a forward pocket to put some respectability back on the scoreboard with his goal-sneaking or just to piss us off - not shaw which.
Verdict - seeing these guys start in the middle - they are just not up to it and they got killed by Campbell, Knights, Rogers etc
Sav - started solidly - dropped some marks then his head - got dragged - Shaw should have moved him up the ground instead of off it - Shaw still hasn't figured out what to do when the opposition runs off big Sav or Sav hasn't figured out to chase - happens every week.
Watson - started well but faded a little - 2 goals and some lively play.
Lane - patchy but 2 goals.
Patterson - made some silly mistake but do agree he should sit in a pocket under Sav - 2 a week would be good without the turnovers.
A Rocca - had a few kicked on him but did play attacking footy and seemed more confident up back - would persist with him there.
Presta - may have kept Richo off the socrebooks a little but was still slow and didn't beat his opponent.
Schauble - deputy vice captain .... seems to have forgotten how to play.
Richo - had to go up back and struggled but we don't have too many tall options.
Gardner - showed a little but if you look at objectively he showed nothing compared to Ottens and McKee.
Wasley - ok before injured.
McDonald - a f*#^$% waste of time - not putting in for a senior player.
Crosisca - battled on but had to fill gaps.
Scotland - quiet game but deserves chance to develop.
Davis - very good skills - kept a bit quiet but then he is now being tagged (in his 3rd game) - showed huge courage to back into packs.
Betheras - like this guy a lot - was very good when he came on - went in very hard - got fired up after a goal (when we were still a half chance) and his enthusiasm was snuffed out by his ignoring teammates.
Brown - gutsy as usual but goal kicking continues to let him down - worth a run on the wing or half back on a weaker opposition player.
Williams - thrashed in 1st half but Shaw finally put him on the ball - surprisingly he got a bit of it and did what he's best at - kicked some goals.
Forwards - best output for the year - needs Sav to put up his hand - output from smaller forwards was good - delivery into forward line is atrocious.
Backs - struggled but were let down by midfield - week to week they
don't know which teamate will line up beside them.
Watched the magoos - not much is senior ready but some of the young ones are worth a go.
Would actually leave Oborne there for a few weeks - a few bags would lift his confidence (he is too slight to make an impact at seniors yet).
Venables looks like Kelly re-incarnated so Frawley's playing him at CHF of course. Kinnear showed some leadership in the backline. Tape (who I've wanted in the seniors all year) let me down with some fundamental mistakes and probably wait another week. Tarrant was good without
threatening. These guys really have to be able to tear a magoos game apart off their own before they get promoted - not many are doing that.
Will Walker & Michael really play in the 2's ?
Go Pies
On the coaching side - Dermie would be great but there is no way he'll leave the Hawks mid year and he should have some coaching experience. Collingwood should have (and 20-20 hindsight is a great thing but I made the call at the time) signed Dermie up straight from playing to reserves coach. If they did he would have had 2-3 years coaching under his belt ready to step up to the seniors and would have developed the Roccas (for a start) more than the current crew. They didn't and Hawthorn have got him nicely wrapped up as a director. Shawry will see the year out but Eddie & Co will have the interviews running by the end of May.
Maybe we could trade Frawley to the Saints for Watson or for Francis back or just for free!
Anyone have any recently retired players in mind who would make a good coach in 2-3 years ?
Monkhorst - outplayed by 2 mobile kids - threatened to knock Aaron James block off - it would have been his best effort all year.
King - got a lot of it but wrong foots our side by stepping back, running in circles - good fringe player but given his build and foot skills won't get much better than this.
Orhcard - few touches - probably his worst game but he is a positive for the year - the type of reject we should be picking up (he would still be in the Sydney side).
Wild - reached new levels of ineptitude - even for him - got dragged (to a standing ovation) and then put back on in a forward pocket to put some respectability back on the scoreboard with his goal-sneaking or just to piss us off - not shaw which.
Verdict - seeing these guys start in the middle - they are just not up to it and they got killed by Campbell, Knights, Rogers etc
Sav - started solidly - dropped some marks then his head - got dragged - Shaw should have moved him up the ground instead of off it - Shaw still hasn't figured out what to do when the opposition runs off big Sav or Sav hasn't figured out to chase - happens every week.
Watson - started well but faded a little - 2 goals and some lively play.
Lane - patchy but 2 goals.
Patterson - made some silly mistake but do agree he should sit in a pocket under Sav - 2 a week would be good without the turnovers.
A Rocca - had a few kicked on him but did play attacking footy and seemed more confident up back - would persist with him there.
Presta - may have kept Richo off the socrebooks a little but was still slow and didn't beat his opponent.
Schauble - deputy vice captain .... seems to have forgotten how to play.
Richo - had to go up back and struggled but we don't have too many tall options.
Gardner - showed a little but if you look at objectively he showed nothing compared to Ottens and McKee.
Wasley - ok before injured.
McDonald - a f*#^$% waste of time - not putting in for a senior player.
Crosisca - battled on but had to fill gaps.
Scotland - quiet game but deserves chance to develop.
Davis - very good skills - kept a bit quiet but then he is now being tagged (in his 3rd game) - showed huge courage to back into packs.
Betheras - like this guy a lot - was very good when he came on - went in very hard - got fired up after a goal (when we were still a half chance) and his enthusiasm was snuffed out by his ignoring teammates.
Brown - gutsy as usual but goal kicking continues to let him down - worth a run on the wing or half back on a weaker opposition player.
Williams - thrashed in 1st half but Shaw finally put him on the ball - surprisingly he got a bit of it and did what he's best at - kicked some goals.
Forwards - best output for the year - needs Sav to put up his hand - output from smaller forwards was good - delivery into forward line is atrocious.
Backs - struggled but were let down by midfield - week to week they
don't know which teamate will line up beside them.
Watched the magoos - not much is senior ready but some of the young ones are worth a go.
Would actually leave Oborne there for a few weeks - a few bags would lift his confidence (he is too slight to make an impact at seniors yet).
Venables looks like Kelly re-incarnated so Frawley's playing him at CHF of course. Kinnear showed some leadership in the backline. Tape (who I've wanted in the seniors all year) let me down with some fundamental mistakes and probably wait another week. Tarrant was good without
threatening. These guys really have to be able to tear a magoos game apart off their own before they get promoted - not many are doing that.
Will Walker & Michael really play in the 2's ?
Go Pies
On the coaching side - Dermie would be great but there is no way he'll leave the Hawks mid year and he should have some coaching experience. Collingwood should have (and 20-20 hindsight is a great thing but I made the call at the time) signed Dermie up straight from playing to reserves coach. If they did he would have had 2-3 years coaching under his belt ready to step up to the seniors and would have developed the Roccas (for a start) more than the current crew. They didn't and Hawthorn have got him nicely wrapped up as a director. Shawry will see the year out but Eddie & Co will have the interviews running by the end of May.
Maybe we could trade Frawley to the Saints for Watson or for Francis back or just for free!
Anyone have any recently retired players in mind who would make a good coach in 2-3 years ?
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bokka
- Posts: 1600
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: NY, Ex Land of Brave and Free
good rundown and some good points there. Not sure if it'd be a good idea to rush Walker into the side, but you can bank on Michael being in the side I'd say.
That was a good move putting Williams onto the ball, so he could run himself into the game. CAn't understand why SAv wasn't put back into the ruck, unless he's carrying his knee again. Shaw might be learning how to coach a bit, but he'd better hurry up.
Big tip: collingwood to finish 9th this year.
OK 8th.... eternal optimist.
That was a good move putting Williams onto the ball, so he could run himself into the game. CAn't understand why SAv wasn't put back into the ruck, unless he's carrying his knee again. Shaw might be learning how to coach a bit, but he'd better hurry up.
Big tip: collingwood to finish 9th this year.
OK 8th.... eternal optimist.
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Lulie Street Phantom
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David West
I am not sure I would waste Walker in the reserves.If he is available play him.We have stood around with patience with his injuries knowing that he was class.Our Centre half forward position has been a waste land for too long.If he is good enough lets put him there.If he goes down,the sooner we know the better.We need the best side that we can field and he would gain nothing in the maggoos
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Mick
David you must be joking. Bring a bloke who has played one and a half practice matches in almost 3 years straight into the seniors - that's one sure way to break him down again. He should play at least a month in the magoos. I also question his "class" - don't you think you're being a little generous here ? Walker has played about 16 games in his career and with the exception of that game against Port in which he broke down I wouldn't rate any of them above average. I hope he can be as good as you reckon he already is but part of the problem with the Pies is our culture and the supporters have a lot of influence on this. We continually kid ourselves that players are better than they really are and this prevents hard decisions being made around the Club. You can't just analyse our players on their own - you must compare their rate of progress against players of the same age at other Clubs. Davis is the first genuine senior prospect we've had for a couple of years. He is the first player we could seriously argue deserves a Rising Star nomination. At the moment there are no others. They are the cold hard facts. The development coaching staff should be measured by how many young players they can get nominated and how many get external (not CFC) recognition as promising senior players.
To date their achievement of these goals has been atrocious. The poor list / poor recruiting argument definitely does not fly for the November draftees - we pick from the same pool - you'd have to assume that other Clubs and experts would agree with at worst 2 out of our 5 picks each year - the development then falls away. We've been too soft on Frawley , Shaw & Co for what they've done with guys like Tarrant, Kinnear etc
To date their achievement of these goals has been atrocious. The poor list / poor recruiting argument definitely does not fly for the November draftees - we pick from the same pool - you'd have to assume that other Clubs and experts would agree with at worst 2 out of our 5 picks each year - the development then falls away. We've been too soft on Frawley , Shaw & Co for what they've done with guys like Tarrant, Kinnear etc
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Damien
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The key with Tarrant, Kinnear etc...(and you can also add Tuckey,Gardiner and several others to that list)is what we do with them during the next 18 months. They were all highly regarded as juniors and were always going to go early in the drafts, the trick now is how the club handles them in their formative years. We have not done this well in the past and as a consequence have let guys go thinking they're not much chop: eg: Sanderson, Brett James, Curley. Not world beaters, but established senior players at top clubs. The problem is Shaw has been reluctant to give them enough games/gametime because he has had to coach for his short-term survival and has not had the luxury of carrying these guys while they gain much needed experience. Its not very often you get ready made recruits out of the draft, we were lucky in 1990 with Russell and Francis and Essendon had a freak year in 1993 with Hird, Misiti, Mercuri, Fletcher (Dare I say Olarenshaw) they ended up with a flag. It looks like we've got another one this year with Nick davis, however, the vast majority need to be managed and it is an area where unfortunately we have no idea.
Damien.
PS: Case in point, Anthony Rocca. If he'd been allowed a few years at CHB to learn the game he may now be playing to the level that we all know he is capable of.
Damien.
PS: Case in point, Anthony Rocca. If he'd been allowed a few years at CHB to learn the game he may now be playing to the level that we all know he is capable of.