Interestingly, the following notice has appeared on the official CFC web site: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Disclaimer
The Club has no association whatsoever with the Fanzine issues or Internet Site that has appeared recently. The Club has neither sanctioned nor endorsed the Fanzine and never views the material in it beforehand.
General Manager Richard Stremski<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't understand this reaction. The fanzine states very clearly that it is 'unofficial' and is obviously pro Collingwood and 'black and white' through and through - it can only do immense good. Why is the Club distancing itself.
The fanzine has come at a time when Collingwood is at its lowest ebb, a time when all that can be done to engender some passion and one-eyed support, must be done. Hot Pies does that admirably.
Ben and Johnny at Hot Pies deserve recognition for the good that they are doing through the production of this quality fanzine and not a statement from the Club distancing itself from their efforts.
Incidentally, the website was created and put online by me in an effort to support what the guys at Hot Pies are trying to do. They didn't ask for it or expect it. It's the 'unofficial' website of the 'unofficial' fanzine.
CFC Responds to Hot Pies
Moderator: bbmods
-
Pugsville
They Have to distance themseleves from the fanzine and web site. They do not control (nor should) what is printed and posted. It is pro collingwood but not a collingwood football club publication. I would not take it as disapproval or lack of appreication for the efforts of those invovled. I personally yet to see either myself, but the club must make a statement of distance/no control. They have to much more carefull about what is said for legal and other reasons. Unoffical sites/publications have much more latitute in what they say. But I woouldn't read too much "bad vibes" from the club or anything.
pugs.
pugs.
-
Mike
- Posts: 3137
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 1996 7:01 pm
- Location: Lilydale, Tas.
- Has liked: 89 times
- Been liked: 26 times
I agree Pugs that the Club cannot appear to be endorsing any publication, written or electronic, that it has no control over; but why the public disclaimer? Hot Pies has clearly stated on the cover of every issue "Hot Pies - Unofficial CFC Fanzine".
There have been a plethora of unofficial Collingwood websites over the last few years including this one, but the Club has never before publicly recognised that any of them even exist let alone felt the need to distance itself.
You're probably right Pugs, I may be over-reacting. Perhaps this is a back-handed compliment. Perhaps the quality of Hot Pies and its rapid popularity and acceptance by supporters has forced them to adopt a position.
There have been a plethora of unofficial Collingwood websites over the last few years including this one, but the Club has never before publicly recognised that any of them even exist let alone felt the need to distance itself.
You're probably right Pugs, I may be over-reacting. Perhaps this is a back-handed compliment. Perhaps the quality of Hot Pies and its rapid popularity and acceptance by supporters has forced them to adopt a position.
-
Clemo
- Posts: 4039
- Joined: Tue Mar 24, 1998 8:01 pm
- Location: Mentone
Eagerly awaiting my next HotPies issue !
------------------
Tony_Clemente@hotmail.com
www.netspace.net.au/~clemo
------------------
Tony_Clemente@hotmail.com
www.netspace.net.au/~clemo
-
PieGirl39
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
- Contact:
The disclaimer is probably the biggest official compliment the club will give Ben and Johnny. Consider it this way - Hot Pies must be good if the club is that concerned about an external publication and website that it is commenting on it. You're right Pugs, it's just a legal issue that they have to adhere to. Nothing else to it.
-
Hotrod
No Mike is correct.
It is a strange course of action for certain elements of the CFC to take.
Legally they are not required to do anything.
It is we the websites & fanzines who must distance ourselves from the club.
If anything Mike it may be a reaction to HP's rapid growth in popularity in relation to their own sanitised 'Black & White' publication.
Which of course IS a back handed compliment.
However the ambiguity of the disclaimer makes their actions even more stupifying.
At this stage the next issue of HP is slated to be ready for the North game. It will be the 'tribute to Vic Park' issue.
I suggest all readers of this now contoversial publication buy two copies. Just in case you lose one.
It is a strange course of action for certain elements of the CFC to take.
Legally they are not required to do anything.
It is we the websites & fanzines who must distance ourselves from the club.
If anything Mike it may be a reaction to HP's rapid growth in popularity in relation to their own sanitised 'Black & White' publication.
Which of course IS a back handed compliment.
However the ambiguity of the disclaimer makes their actions even more stupifying.
At this stage the next issue of HP is slated to be ready for the North game. It will be the 'tribute to Vic Park' issue.
I suggest all readers of this now contoversial publication buy two copies. Just in case you lose one.
-
Damien
- Posts: 5718
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 1999 8:01 pm
- Location: Croydon Vic
- Has liked: 3 times
- Been liked: 11 times
I think the club has a different reason for the official disclaimer.
They have never had to distance themselves from unofficial websites in the past because the average punter surfing the web is aware of the culture of the internet and knows that there is all sorts of propoganda on the web which could come from any source.
In the case of 'Hot Pies', because it is hard copy and available on the street, anyone who attends the footy, from 3 year old kids to 103 year old grannies may buy a copy (a bargain at $2 incidentally) and may be offended by the site of a naked Anthony Rocca or Lord Eddie 'Sacred Heart' MacGuire. In other words, because these people may not be aware of the concept of independent publishing or freedom of the press, they may naturally assume it comes from the Club. Hell, they may even mistakenly buy it, thinking its the AFL record.
Ben & Johnny, Keep up the good work guys. I think anyone who really loves Collingwood would agree that at the end of the day, Hot Pies spreads the message, and that can only be a good thing for the Club.
------------------
Damien
They have never had to distance themselves from unofficial websites in the past because the average punter surfing the web is aware of the culture of the internet and knows that there is all sorts of propoganda on the web which could come from any source.
In the case of 'Hot Pies', because it is hard copy and available on the street, anyone who attends the footy, from 3 year old kids to 103 year old grannies may buy a copy (a bargain at $2 incidentally) and may be offended by the site of a naked Anthony Rocca or Lord Eddie 'Sacred Heart' MacGuire. In other words, because these people may not be aware of the concept of independent publishing or freedom of the press, they may naturally assume it comes from the Club. Hell, they may even mistakenly buy it, thinking its the AFL record.
Ben & Johnny, Keep up the good work guys. I think anyone who really loves Collingwood would agree that at the end of the day, Hot Pies spreads the message, and that can only be a good thing for the Club.
------------------
Damien
-
Mike
- Posts: 3137
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 1996 7:01 pm
- Location: Lilydale, Tas.
- Has liked: 89 times
- Been liked: 26 times
I think you've got it Damien. Hot Pies has a professional quality that may well mislead people into assuming that it is produced, if not by the Club, then at least with its support. Considering the stated editorial aim of taking the piss out of anything, I can understand that the Club may have to make a statement, but Hottie is right: the strange wording and the fact that Hot Pies is not mentioned by name, but referred to only as 'the Fanzine issues' and 'Internet Site' makes the disclaimer strangely ambiguous. I think it also gives it an unnecessarily hostile flavour.
The guys at Hot Pies responded to this thread on Hotdog's bulletin board, I've stolen a copy to post here. Their response tends to reinforce Damien's thoughts. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
From Hot Pies
A couple of people have made me aware of the disclaimer but attempting to navigate my way thru the Woods' amazingly intuitive site has brought me no joy in finding it. (Any definitive help would be welcomed) My spies told me that Mike & Hotrod's sites were mentioned as well but they could be wrong.
Hot Pies aint concerned, we're just worried that Prof Stremski should have more important things on his agenda than giving us free publicity.
At the beginning of the year Hot Pies contacted CFC to make them aware of its birth and allay their fears. No editorial bargaining was offered but our argument was that the club probably needed a little education on the fanzine concept and we wanted to be potential friends not enemies. Unfortunately they couldn't spare five minutes so we marched on not knowing the sort of response that we would end up getting this year.
Recently we have contacted them and offered our readership (created thru some decent hard yakka, we might say) thru advertising as a way for the club to communicate to supporters and to promote anything from merchandising to Round 22 festivities. As anyone that has read HP will know advertising hasn't been one of our strong points. It is not a priority, we simply saw it as a favour.
We don't think they liked the idea.
Apparently they have had two letters of complaint (which were sent to the Membership Manager for some reason) and an upset trainer's wife (read "Sack the dietician").
Which obviously pales into insignificance our readership of probably close to 3-4000, a dozen emails a week and a decent sized subscription base.
Hot Pies will probably be around a lot longer than the current administration (as will Mike and Hotrod et al and the next half dozen Magpie fanzines that will be born) so they better get used to us all.
Hot Pies Eds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ps. Nick was a bit miffed to see his site referred to as Mike's, I told him to get over it:)
The guys at Hot Pies responded to this thread on Hotdog's bulletin board, I've stolen a copy to post here. Their response tends to reinforce Damien's thoughts. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
From Hot Pies
A couple of people have made me aware of the disclaimer but attempting to navigate my way thru the Woods' amazingly intuitive site has brought me no joy in finding it. (Any definitive help would be welcomed) My spies told me that Mike & Hotrod's sites were mentioned as well but they could be wrong.
Hot Pies aint concerned, we're just worried that Prof Stremski should have more important things on his agenda than giving us free publicity.
At the beginning of the year Hot Pies contacted CFC to make them aware of its birth and allay their fears. No editorial bargaining was offered but our argument was that the club probably needed a little education on the fanzine concept and we wanted to be potential friends not enemies. Unfortunately they couldn't spare five minutes so we marched on not knowing the sort of response that we would end up getting this year.
Recently we have contacted them and offered our readership (created thru some decent hard yakka, we might say) thru advertising as a way for the club to communicate to supporters and to promote anything from merchandising to Round 22 festivities. As anyone that has read HP will know advertising hasn't been one of our strong points. It is not a priority, we simply saw it as a favour.
We don't think they liked the idea.
Apparently they have had two letters of complaint (which were sent to the Membership Manager for some reason) and an upset trainer's wife (read "Sack the dietician").
Which obviously pales into insignificance our readership of probably close to 3-4000, a dozen emails a week and a decent sized subscription base.
Hot Pies will probably be around a lot longer than the current administration (as will Mike and Hotrod et al and the next half dozen Magpie fanzines that will be born) so they better get used to us all.
Hot Pies Eds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ps. Nick was a bit miffed to see his site referred to as Mike's, I told him to get over it:)
-
foxy
- Posts: 1301
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: melbourne
-
Hotrod
Sorry to bore you Foxy.
However some us have what might be termed a vested interest. So please indulge me one more time.
Damien what you say is of course correct.
But if the content was of that much concern then why the ambiguity of the disclaimer?
The club's primary concern has always been monetary.
Other than the personality clashes it is interesting to note that the official B&W publication (not including those given free to members) has sales of around 800 per issue. Not only has it been around for ever it also has newsagent distribution. These aren't great figures for a club who touts itself as being the Man U of Australia. HP in its short life has already exceeded that.
If I were involved in the B&W production I would be distancing myself from HP for what ever reason too!
Mike, do me a favour. Start up a merchandise facility on Nick's page. I'm keen to see the clubs reaction.
However some us have what might be termed a vested interest. So please indulge me one more time.
Damien what you say is of course correct.
But if the content was of that much concern then why the ambiguity of the disclaimer?
The club's primary concern has always been monetary.
Other than the personality clashes it is interesting to note that the official B&W publication (not including those given free to members) has sales of around 800 per issue. Not only has it been around for ever it also has newsagent distribution. These aren't great figures for a club who touts itself as being the Man U of Australia. HP in its short life has already exceeded that.
If I were involved in the B&W production I would be distancing myself from HP for what ever reason too!
Mike, do me a favour. Start up a merchandise facility on Nick's page. I'm keen to see the clubs reaction.
-
Mike
- Posts: 3137
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 1996 7:01 pm
- Location: Lilydale, Tas.
- Has liked: 89 times
- Been liked: 26 times
Hotrod, I'm responding to your request for merchandising even though I'm pretty sure that your tongue was firmly in your cheek.
I'd love to set up a bit of ecommerce and make this site pay for itself, but I really don't know what we'd sell other than domain names and email addresses. If we tried selling Collingwood or AFL merchandise we'd get an instant and justifiable reaction from both the Club and the AFL in the form of a legitimate order to 'cease and desist' and it might not stop at the merchandise.
As you know one of the problems with running a fan site is that we walk a very narrow path of legitimacy and really rely on the indulgence of the owners of information, trademarks, images etc.
For the edification of Foxy and others who have put up with this thread, the following ramble may explain what led me to start it.
Although they've never recognised Nick's site officially, the Club has obviously allowed for the fact that the motive behind the site was purely a love of the Pies and have been very supportive. For instance, in early 1998 it became apparent that player fan mail from this site was disappearing into the ether and had been for quite a while. John May had previously offered assistance ( Guestbook May '97 ) so I contacted him and he arranged for Karen Gilbert (PR Manager) to receive all the fan mail and distribute it to the players, she also added Nick to the media list so that all media releases were automatically sent to him for inclusion on the site. Both arrangements have worked reliably and efficiently ever since.
That kind of support is why it was so hard to understand the different attitude to the fanzine. Considering the good that Hot Pies does Collingwood, I suppose I expected the Club to at least afford it the same treatment that this web site has received, so it was surprising and somewhat disconcerting to find the disclaimer.
I'd love to set up a bit of ecommerce and make this site pay for itself, but I really don't know what we'd sell other than domain names and email addresses. If we tried selling Collingwood or AFL merchandise we'd get an instant and justifiable reaction from both the Club and the AFL in the form of a legitimate order to 'cease and desist' and it might not stop at the merchandise.
As you know one of the problems with running a fan site is that we walk a very narrow path of legitimacy and really rely on the indulgence of the owners of information, trademarks, images etc.
For the edification of Foxy and others who have put up with this thread, the following ramble may explain what led me to start it.
Although they've never recognised Nick's site officially, the Club has obviously allowed for the fact that the motive behind the site was purely a love of the Pies and have been very supportive. For instance, in early 1998 it became apparent that player fan mail from this site was disappearing into the ether and had been for quite a while. John May had previously offered assistance ( Guestbook May '97 ) so I contacted him and he arranged for Karen Gilbert (PR Manager) to receive all the fan mail and distribute it to the players, she also added Nick to the media list so that all media releases were automatically sent to him for inclusion on the site. Both arrangements have worked reliably and efficiently ever since.
That kind of support is why it was so hard to understand the different attitude to the fanzine. Considering the good that Hot Pies does Collingwood, I suppose I expected the Club to at least afford it the same treatment that this web site has received, so it was surprising and somewhat disconcerting to find the disclaimer.
-
Pie no sauce
,,,,ever diminishing circles,
,,,,occams razor,,,and,,
THE DISCLAIMER,,,,
Hey guys, have you read the fiduciary duties, duty of care, legal responsibilities and such like of company Directors. Very severe consequences apply these days.
I can entirely understand why Stremski, Eddie and anyone as an operational executive at CFC would protect themselves against the (perhaps remote) possibility of implication in some or other naughty deed.
THAT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH THEIR POTENTIAL LOVE AND ADMIRATION FOR THE MAG ITSELF.
That's all.
,,,,occams razor,,,and,,
THE DISCLAIMER,,,,
Hey guys, have you read the fiduciary duties, duty of care, legal responsibilities and such like of company Directors. Very severe consequences apply these days.
I can entirely understand why Stremski, Eddie and anyone as an operational executive at CFC would protect themselves against the (perhaps remote) possibility of implication in some or other naughty deed.
THAT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH THEIR POTENTIAL LOVE AND ADMIRATION FOR THE MAG ITSELF.
That's all.