Censorship

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Mike
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Censorship

Post by Mike »

A quote from Greg J's post in the Mal Michael topic:
I understand that there are sometimes when you react harshly to certain things (like an attack on a favourite player), other times when you take them in your stride.
When I first read this, I read the 'you' as generic, which is the way I think Greg intended it. When I re-read it this morning I realised that he might have been addressing it to me. So I'm going to answer it assuming that he was - it's probably time I re-stated my 'censorship' policy anyway.

Firstly the facts.
  • The Bulletin Board is a public arena and anything said in any of the forums, other than the private ones, is assumed to be said in public.
  • A person who posts on this bulletin board can and may be held liable by any person who is injured by something said in that post.
  • The publisher (me, through Nick as a minor) can and may also be held liable for such a post.
  • Any action taken against me will adversely affect the future well-being of this site.
As London Dave said, public figures have a harder time proving defamation because of the fact that they have chosen to live their lives in the public eye, but I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sure where, in the sand, that line can be drawn. So I am compelled to err on the side of caution.

My yardstick is to try and separate the professional footballer from the person. Any statement made about the professional footballer is fair game, but I watch very closely anything said about the person. The border is obviously not clear cut and the two overlap so I have to guess the boundary and I do that based on sheer gut feeling. Whether or not I happen to like or dislike the player in question probably has an influence, but I'm aware of that and try not to let it happen.

The story that Member posted about Mal Michael was in the grey area. It concerned Mal and his behaviour as a person, but that behaviour affected his relationship with the Club and consequently affected his potential as a professional footballer. My yardstick here was to consider the possible consequences: was the story damaging to Mal personally? The answer was very clearly yes - and as I stated in an earlier post, there was no supporting evidence offered. I had to call the shot and I'm only human - it's not a job I'd wish on anybody else. Member obviously felt justified in posting the story and was a bit miffed when it was cut. It was purely a difference in judgement between the two of us. The deciding factor, for me, is that Member's actions could have injured me and the Bulletin Board, but that mine could only have upset him.

While I've got up a head of steam up, I should also mention the other two areas that may cause me to edit or delete posts - blasphemy and profanity.

I don't have a religion and that makes judgement of blasphemy very difficult - I would tend to let things through that would shock somebody else. I also don't have too much of a problem with profanity unless it's so gross that it makes my stomach turn. In both those cases I have to create an artificial (for me) border so that the bulletin board is comfortable for the majority without being stifled and it's not easy.

Nick only censors after talking to me, so where his name is attached to an edited or deleted post, it's really me that has made the decision.

I'm a non-interventionist and respect people's right to self-expression. I hate touching anyone else's post and would never do it unless I felt it absolutely necessary. I would certainly never do it just to protect a player's or the Club's image or because I disagreed with what the poster was saying.

That's about it I think. I'd appreciate questions or feedback. The job's always easier if you have some idea of how the question is viewed by others.
Member
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Post by Member »

I would like to take this time to say a few things.

To Mike,
I have never been miffed at what you did, anyone in your position would have done the same thing. I actually respect that.

I was miffed at users of your site that told me to go fourth and multiply. That I don't respect.

I respect people that can argue in a very logical way and not be condescending in the way the do it.

In regards to Mal, well I guess it was harsh to print that on here and maybe I should not have posted it.
Yet as I said in my previous post, I felt at the time everyone needed to know the real reason.

I can't tell anyone how I know. Maybe this issue will eventually come out in the correct forum that it should.

Thanks
jeff#2001

Post by jeff#2001 »

yey
welcome back 'member'
the joff still loves ya!!
Mike
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Post by Mike »

Sorry Member it was an assumption I shouldn't have made. I always expect people to react if I have to mess with their posts and I saw your reaction and assumed that you were upset because you thought it was a cover up.

I take it from the lack of reaction to this post that everyone's happy with way we do things. If you're not I'd like to have your thoughts.
Spidergirl

Post by Spidergirl »

Man i will say it again this whole internet thing is sooo damm stupid sometimes and makes so much trouble but i love it!

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Greg J
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Post by Greg J »

Actually, Mike, I was refferring to the harsh comments directed at Member.
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conno
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Post by conno »

I don't know what was said, but I am interested. I am a firm believer in the fact that while certain things said in a public forum can be libelous or damaging, the fact is, people have to be accountable for their actions.

If Mal did or allegedly did something shocking, it is reasonable to think that he should be held accountable by his fans and the public in general. Of course none of us like hearing bad things said about our "heroes", but essentially, we can't be given a false sense of who they are, thus allowing them a free reign in fear of retribution or sadness from the fans. It was this attitude that led to the acquittal of OJ Simpson, the MURDERER.

I truly believe that whatever was said should be allowed on the board. Legal reasons aside, while we don't like hearing BAD or destructive things written about our "heroes" (and one for example being the referecnce to the "The Players Don't Like Buckley" Topic), by shielding the guilty we encourage a trend of ignoring accountability.

If I was a Collingwood officer or any kind and saw conflict between Buckley and the players, I might, in an effort to keep the peace, ignore it. Once it reaches the public domain, it is a different story. Things HAVE TO change if that happens. Positive things occur. Every person in the world is accountable, whether in work, life or whatever. Remove the ability for that person to be accountable and morals, goals and goodness comes to an end.

Sorry if I sounded a bit like a septic there, but I am being serious. I really think that if this Mal thing is true, get it OUT THERE!!!
mike b
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Post by mike b »

Mike,

First of all, congratulations on a very well written summary of your views on site censorship and codes of conduct. I think it clearly enunciates your position - both legal and moral.

I don't envy you in making such judgements, but I do agree that if "personal" rumours about players or club identities have no public substance (ie fact), then they can't be transmitted in this forum. I don't know what Mal Michael was supposed to have done. I would love to know (as I can't understand why we traded him), but only if it's fact - not rumour and innuendo. Furthermore, it's not this one instance which is at issue, but the pandora's box which gets opened if you allow it to continue without control. For every true rumour, I reckon there are ten false ones. It's bad enough getting excited around trade time with all the players that are supposed to be coming to the club, without the extra burden of reading about unfounded snippets on behaviour.
Mike
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Post by Mike »

Firstly Conno, thank you for the response, I appreciate the opportunity to address questions raised by those who disagree with what we do, I am sure there are many. I have to be careful here not to shoot the messenger. Please don't take my response as a personal one, I am merely addressing the issues you raise.

One of the problems with moderating the board in the way that we do, is that it is tantalising. We moderate in the open, which means that all posts are made directly to the board and then modified later if necessary. That means that the people can see that something was altered and, of course, immediately want to know what it was. Other forums, e.g. the forum attached to the official Club site, have hidden moderation. That means that all posts go to the moderator first who then decides which posts are placed in the forum and posts them. Their method is much easier and safer because problem posts never appear, nor do the objections to deletions or modifications. It is a very peaceful form of moderation, compared to the one that we use, but it stamps the personality of the moderator very firmly on the whole board.

We run a small risk by allowing all posts to be seen publicly, but the system emails all posts in public forums to us as soon as they're posted, so problem posts can be identified very quickly. If we have to edit or delete we always leave evidence of having done so.

There are some problems with the logic of your argument Conno.

"I don't know what was said, but I am interested."

How can you have an opinion on whether or not the information should be public property if you don't know what it is?

"If Mal did or allegedly did something shocking, it is reasonable to think that he should be held accountable by his fans and the public in general."

How can someone be held accountable for an allegation? Accountability requires an action not an alleged action.

Protecting the guilty:

Guilty of what? ...and in whose opinion? Do you really believe that because something is said about someone that they are immediately guilty and that it is our duty to announce that to the world? I repeat what I said in my earlier post (above) that I never act merely to protect a player or the Club, but I do act to protect myself and this forum. mike b summed it up well "For every true rumour, I reckon there are ten false ones." Do we air the ten false ones and accept the subsequent damage that they might do in order to get to the truth? Should I be allowed to call you a murderer or a thief or a paedophile in public just because I've heard that you are? Of course not. Based on sheer statistical probability there's a chance that you may be, but here's also a chance that I may win tattslotto. Incidenatally Mal wasn't accused of any of these things, they're just used as an example. Even ignoring the problems it might cause us, do you really want to destroy somebody's character by perpetuating a rumour?

You discount the un-discountable as if you can do so just by saying it: "while certain things said in a public forum can be libelous or damaging, the fact is, people have to be accountable for their actions." and "Legal reasons aside". You can't just ignore these by dismissing them like that. They continue to control what we can and can't do regardless of whether or not you think that is right - and rightly so too.

Finally, your final statement: "I really think that if this Mal thing is true, get it OUT THERE!!!". I don't have a crystal ball...well, I do actually, but it doesn't seem to work. How can we possibly know whether or not it's true? I'm not going to make that judgement.

There is nothing I'd like more than to be able to make these things public and act on the collective opinion of everyone, but that introduces 'catch 22' and is obviously not a possibility.


mike b, thanks for understanding what we're trying to do and what I'm trying to say.
Spidergirl

Post by Spidergirl »

ooooh fu@k me dead!
This is all toooo complicated for little Spidergirl. All i can say is watch what u say on here coz u never know who reading it and what trouble one little thing u say can cause.

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conno
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Post by conno »

Fair enough Mike - you've obviously been put in a place where the best option is to just take it down - And you're right, the best thing you can EVER do is take it down but at least show everyone that you are editing the site. That way it is all out in the open...

conno
Mike
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Post by Mike »

I thought I should let you know that JUBJUB made a couple of forgettable postings last night and I wiped them.

And I've deleted and banned him. If he wants to post on this board, he can join the other wannabe magpies in the VPT.
Mike
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Post by Mike »

Please don't over-react. The last thing I want is a war between the two boards.

Both Big Footy and this site fill different needs and should be able to co-exist peacefully.
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