Vale / in Memorium

[pietillidie]

Geez, fascinating thread...just pondering this.... I am glad the mods have erred on the side of free expression, despite totally disagreeing with the racial references in the posts. Communities have to contest and negotiate constitutional grey areas such as the boundary between freedom of expression and racial vilification; authorities cannot make such calls except in obvious cases where the speech is clearly threatening. Offensive is not threatening. That's how I weigh it up at this point.

But having said that, the complication is that for minorities or those with less power, even merely offensive references carry with them fear and threat because today's offensive reference could be threatening tomorrow if the minority is scapegoated for any particular reason, or more commonly disadvantageous tomorrow if it is used to restrict equal opportunity. That has been my experience being part of a minority in Asia. I couldn't care less about being insulted, but it does make me very nervous when say there is an outbreak of anti-American sentiment as I happen to look American and by extension get targeted. So I certainly empathise with minorities a lot more now than I did before living overseas. There is an implicit threat that accompanies identification as a minority by virtue of power differential.

[Didaksgoal]

Time for a drink between friends

[Dr Pie]

.

Let's have a little look at the following article:

Jewish community defends Pratt. Why?
Thursday, 17 July 2008
Greg Barns writes:
Imagine this. A prominent Catholic prosecutor lays criminal charges against a prominent Catholic layperson. The Catholic community in Australia goes ballistic and individuals lobby through the media and other outlets for the layperson, and they damn the prosecutor.
This scenario, while common in some countries where the separation of religion and state is not so strictly drawn, is not something we can imagine occurring in 21st century Australia. And for good reason -- we would regard it as anathema to our legal system for people to argue that religious or ethnic matters have any bearing on who is prosecuted by whom in our courts.

It appears that neither Troppo nor Greg Barnes have ever heard of John Wren, Archbishop Mannix, Bob Santamaria, Frank McManus, The National Civic Council, the DLP, Arthur Calwell or Pat Kennelly.

Of course Catholics have fought each other in court and in politics and claimed religious prejudice and demanded religious solidarity from each other. If you are going to engage in religious and racial vilification Troppo, at least learn a bit of Australian history before you embarass yourself!

[Neil Appleby]

I think Troppo got it wrong and I think Culprit was just plain appalling.
Swoop 42 was idiotic in the extreme; the looks of Pratt's wife are irrelevant.

That is my opinion and this is a forum where differing opinions have always been welcomed, but please don't play the democracy card to defend your indefensible put-downs.

We all agree that Pratt is a convicted crook and that the media swooning is sickening. Can't we leave it at that?

His religion,wife and mistress have no relevance at all here.

[perthmagpie]

I think most of would agree that its usually socially acceptable that if you can't say anything nice about a person just before they die in pain and distress then say nothing at all at that point. The truth has its way of being revealed when the grief process has run its course.

[Mugwump]

Nobody is all good or all bad.

My condolences to those who loved him.

A voice of sanity, thanks.

Pratt probably should have gone to jail for price-fixing, but I'm content to leave that the legal system. It's what it's there for. If he'd been a Collingwood supporter I suppose most of us would probably be wistfully recalling his fine qualities.

As regards the nasty Jewish jokes, I am writing this from my address in Rabbijn Maarsenplein, site of the Hague's old Jewish school , now demolished. As I look across the square, I can see the small memorial of metallic chairs, each inscribed with the names and ages of children taken from that school because of their race and murdered in 1941. Jack was 8, Gabriel 6, Israel 13, Judith 15, and so on, and on. My problem is that I believe it all starts in the nasty jokes - not in the political opposition to Zionism, but in the jokes and insinuations about economic cheating and racial clannishness. Add some economic ruination, and even a highly rational people like the Germans can be co-opted into the darkest of places.

So I'm not Jewish, and even less of a supporter of the white-phosphorous-flinging Zionist psychopaths who run Israel, but I think we should spare Australia and the Collingwood Football Club the taint of this racial nastiness, please.

[Harrysz]

This is what we know about Troppo:-

1. He uses the word "misogynist" but he doesn't know what it means.
2. He's not only anti-semitic, he's anti-zionist.
3. In making reference to his "many Jewish friends" he tells lies.

[Prometheus]

I'm not racist because I pretty much dislike all races, cultures and creeds equally.

We all experience some form of racism or discrimination in our lives whether we realise it or not. Especially when you're in a situation where you're part of a minority.

So what , you get on with your life.

So we have a bit of anti-semitism expressed in the forum .... ohhh poor little Hebrew fellows , they must be crying all the way to the bank.
Say anything even slightly anti Jew and suddenly you're treated like you're the reicarnation of Hitler.

I bet you that the people that make the biggest fuss about racism etc in a public forum are the ones that in their day to day lives are the most racist.
Its all hypocrisy.

[doobie41]

I'm not racist because I pretty much dislike all races, cultures and creeds equally.

We all experience some form of racism or discrimination in our lives whether we realise it or not. Especially when you're in a situation where you're part of a minority.

So what , you get on with your life.

So we have a bit of anti-semitism expressed in the forum .... ohhh poor little Hebrew fellows , they must be crying all the way to the bank.
Say anything even slightly anti Jew and suddenly you're treated like you're the reicarnation of Hitler.

I bet you that the people that make the biggest fuss about racism etc in a public forum are the ones that in their day to day lives are the most racist.
Its all hypocrisy.

you're a disgrace

[JacJacJacqui]

[The Collingwood Turtle]

Can we get back to the fact that regardless of Pratt's religious persuasion he is one of the biggest corporate criminals in the history of this country.

In the USA he would have been stripped of ALL assets and be in jail.

I cannot believe the amount hyperbole that been stated about Pratt everywhere in recent days.

Some people are painting him out to be an Aussie version of Mother Teresa.

[pietillidie]

I'm not racist because I pretty much dislike all races, cultures and creeds equally.

We all experience some form of racism or discrimination in our lives whether we realise it or not. Especially when you're in a situation where you're part of a minority.

So what , you get on with your life.

So we have a bit of anti-semitism expressed in the forum .... ohhh poor little Hebrew fellows , they must be crying all the way to the bank.
Say anything even slightly anti Jew and suddenly you're treated like you're the reicarnation of Hitler.

I bet you that the people that make the biggest fuss about racism etc in a public forum are the ones that in their day to day lives are the most racist.
Its all hypocrisy.

This is a disgraceful post. I know I am a hypocrite because I know I have been racist before, but I do not believe for a moment that I was ever right in being racist. We all make mistakes and we are all hypocrites to varying degrees, but what you are doing here is going beyond such error. You are defiantly promoting hate against a certain race by employing the same false caricature that foregrounded the persecution of Jews in Europe. This is not say playful pub banter between Aussies and Brits. This is not even criticism of Israeli state policies or tenets of Jewish religion. This is not a valid or rational criticism of any kind. This is a false stereotype that has specifically been employed in the past to incite people to persecute Jews and hence it is disgraceful.

[Prometheus]

you're a disgrace

...... and loving it.

[nomadjack]

Nobody is all good or all bad.

My condolences to those who loved him.

A voice of sanity, thanks.

Pratt probably should have gone to jail for price-fixing, but I'm content to leave that the legal system. It's what it's there for. If he'd been a Collingwood supporter I suppose most of us would probably be wistfully recalling his fine qualities.

As regards the nasty Jewish jokes, I am writing this from my address in Rabbijn Maarsenplein, site of the Hague's old Jewish school , now demolished. As I look across the square, I can see the small memorial of metallic chairs, each inscribed with the names and ages of children taken from that school because of their race and murdered in 1941. Jack was 8, Gabriel 6, Israel 13, Judith 15, and so on, and on. My problem is that I believe it all starts in the nasty jokes - not in the political opposition to Zionism, but in the jokes and insinuations about economic cheating and racial clannishness. Add some economic ruination, and even a highly rational people like the Germans can be co-opted into the darkest of places.

So I'm not Jewish, and even less of a supporter of the white-phosphorous-flinging Zionist psychopaths who run Israel, but I think we should spare Australia and the Collingwood Football Club the taint of this racial nastiness, please.

Nice thoughtful and balanced post. Interesting contrast with some of the other turgid crap in this thread.

[HAL]

you're a disgrace

...... and loving it.

Oh, you are a poet.