Post match. Pies demolish Dees - All comments.

[Neil Appleby]

Cloke - I know it is treacherous to even breathe this, but, I think he has very poor decision making. Let alone goal kicking ability.... very sorry to say. Yes, it was a dour game plan from Roos and a few of our boys had a bad day... but still something is amiss there.

A win is a win. Bring on the Bulldogs.

The season is starting to look very interesting

Disagree on Cloke, Matty; I thought he continued to show signs of getting back. His marking certainly was much stronger. And wasn't it nice to see him lead and have the ball delivered to his chest for a change? He needs to lead more often and do less of the out-muscling stuff.

[MJ23]

I'm struggling to see how we fit Maxwell back in the side to be honest with Seedsman returning and Young hitting top form.

They took a lot of forward half Marks.
Maxy intercept spoil/Marking was missed today.
We actually looked at times one tall too short

[Piesnchess]

Cloke - I know it is treacherous to even breathe this, but, I think he has very poor decision making. Let alone goal kicking ability.... very sorry to say. Yes, it was a dour game plan from Roos and a few of our boys had a bad day... but still something is amiss there.

A win is a win. Bring on the Bulldogs.

The season is starting to look very interesting

Disagree on Cloke, Matty; I thought he continued to show signs of getting back. His marking certainly was much stronger. And wasn't it nice to see him lead and have the ball delivered to his chest for a change? He needs to lead more often and do less of the out-muscling stuff.

Yeah, hes coming back, albeit slowly, but surely. Not sure if I got a glimpse of him having a go in the ruck, did that happen?Not a bad idea really, give him some time on the ball, with Grundy up forward.

[MJ23]

Melbourne's kicking efficiency might have been better than ours-not sure about that. But you're not going to win too many games kicking the ball 20 metres sideways and backwards, which is what they did all day long.

Well, just my observation Doris, that i thought their players spotted up a team-mate on the lead better than we did for much of the day, going inside 50. It was only the superior efforts of Frost and co in our defense, that undid the contested-mark statistic for them. If they were kicking 20M sideways and backwards too frequently, then kudos to our backline and mids for blocking those spaces upfield.

I think you are right with this and after half time we were better at shutting this down or making sure the Marks on the lead were taken much further out from Goal.

I saw us run and carry and take the Game on early. With Melb getting up to 3 players behind the ball we were forced to slow it down as we were turning it over. We missed a second leading target and while Grundy is showing promise as a forward ( for the record I think he will be a seriously good forward in the future) we really missed the second lead up target in White and hopefully soon Reid.
Goldy was leading up far more in the second half and again thats when we started using quick ball movement again as we had that second option.

What was great about this game is it presented many different challenges we haven't faced and the players and coaching staff were able to stop, adapt and then move forward to win the game.

[Neil Appleby]

The other aspect of our game yesterday that really frustrated me was our slow start. This has been a trait of our play all year; remember Anzac Day? It bothers me that we come out mentally flakey and let other teams get their mojo up. It doesn't help that it coincides with appalling foot skills; I drove people around me nuts yesterday because I kept screaming at our players to bloody kick accurately.

I don't think this has been mentioned in dispatches so far, but particularly in the first half, you could hear the groans from the crowd as kicks landed at the feet of leading players time and time again. Swanny did it plenty and Thomas can't hit the side of a barn from 10 paces.

H did it, Elliott did it, Marley did it; it really drove me mad and against top teams it will kill us off.

Speaking of Thomas, I think yesterday showed the reasons why he can't hold his spot in the team; his foot skills absolutely stink. When Reid, Maxy and Sidey are ready to claim their spots in the team again, Thomas will be the first to make way. I like his courage and his vision and the boy is tough, but if you kick the ball at the feet of a leading teammate or, mostly just kick it wide of the mark or out of bounds when kicking for goal, then your effectiveness is severely limited.
From what I have seen this year, Thomas is not in our best 22 and I doubt he will be in our best 25 come September.

[jackcass]

Clinton Young was only good today because the dees recognized that if he has the ball they generally get it back,how does he kick it lace out to the leading backman?because he is just not that good,if he was the hawks would have kept him.Also never seen an afl footballer miss a target with a handball as much as him,seedsman is a much better option

Yes, 26 disposals @ 84.6% is clearly not up to AFL standard. Maybe we can swap him for Daisy.

Exactly. I'm not a fan but his last 2 games have been very very good. Does he always hit a target... no, missed a few by hand and by foot today, but he did put a couple of bullet passes to the advantage of our forwards. His place in the team is safe until a Broomhead or Scharenberg come along and force him out.

[jackcass]

Ugly win but sometimes that's a good thing for teams to do. Remember, 11 players with under 50 games (Langdon, Witts, Grundy, Elliott, Thomas, Keeffe, Williams, Fasolo, Dwyer, Frost, Seedsman) makes this a very inexperienced team.

It really is remarkable. Not so much that we beat the Dees, but that we are 8 and 3 and are relying on so many players with little experience.

It helps that Frost and especially Langdon are playing like 200 game veterans. These two and many others who have contributed this season would not have been considered first teamers by many here at the start of the year. Our defense has been totally recast so often this year and yet we have, by the numbers, the third best defense in the comp.

And now that Seedsman is back and Young is hitting his straps, we're seeing some better ball movement. Some great runs by both of these and nice delivery into the forward line over the last couple of weeks. It's going to take time though before our whole team is on the same page and our ball movement across the board is where it needs to be, but it will happen, there's no doubt we have the ability. With so much player movement and so much inexperience it's not really possible for everything to be working like clockwork just yet.

Exactly. No ceiling on what this young group can achieve but at the same time realistically acknowlwdge that hicups are bound to occur.

[jackcass]

I genuinely want to throw up every time Roos or one of his players says they've become competitive again. Really? If you think competitive footy is chipping the ball around your backline and relying on an uncontested game to not get flogged as hard as last year because you simply don't have enough talent to do anything else, then go to hell.

LOL at the Melbourne supporters who think Roos has taken them forward. My facebook feed was flooded with status' saying how honorable they played today. Same goes for Brian Taylor and the rest of that shit show they call a commentary team on channel 7.

Sad part is that they probably have the talent to play more offensive footy, just lack the bravery at this stage.

[AN_Inkling]

And Young comfortably outplayed Seedsman yesterday. Seeds is either not fit enough or not working hard enough, did some great things but not enough of them.

The pass that Young hit straight to the full back? It was an excellent pass, low and hard. When he started his kicking motion Trav was even with his defender, it was only after the kick was on its way that Dunn had worked his way in front.

He executed the exact same pass later on to, I think Grundy, and hit his man perfectly.

[jackcass]

Cant believe how much vitriol is being Spewed towards Paul Roos on here tonight.

We bloody won, so I'm not that worried that they play a game that isn't particularly attractive. And we wont have to worry about watching it again this year.

However the bloke is a Premiership Coach so I'm tipping he knows a bit more about the caper than some of the peanuts on here.

They stayed with us for 3.5 quarters and because it was so low scoring, a 5 min burst and a few goals and they could have swung the game.

They also pushed Port all the way who are 2 games clear on top.

Every good side is built on a foundation of defence. He inherited a basket case and he has to teach them a basic game plan before it can get more fancy. I reckon there is more upside to Melbourne than several other teams at the moment. Richmond for one.

Lay of Paul Roos. He's alright!

Vitriol? I think not. Nothing against Roosy personally. It's just that his style of coaching does nothing for the advancement of the AFL. It is mind-numbingly boring. Successful? At Sydney, yes. At Melbourne? Time will tell. 3 goals in an entire game is pathetic. Fun to watch? No.

Sydney are a miles better team since his departure.

Yes, Sydney may be a better team since Roos has moved on but compare the 2... Sydney post Roos with StKilda post Lyon... Roos may prefer a dour defensive game style but he laid solid foundations in terms of player personel and culture.

[jackcass]

I actually feel Cloke worked his butt off and built up as we got into the game gained a he gained a lot of confidence.

Agreed I think Cloke's work rate was great, but has to sit just on the the 50 metre and not push up so much. I knew one on one he could beat Dunn and ihe did when it counted. I cant believe Fox Footy gave Dunn 3 votes saw it after the game. Me and BBHS nearly spat out our beers over Robbie Flower!

Agree on Cloke's workrate. Think it has been the consistent aspect of his game all season. DDisagree on him remaining in the forward 50. We rely on our big forwards to get up the ground to give us an outlet from defense. Without Reid and White in the team, Cloke was the obvious option.

[MattyD]

I never buy the herald sun and I never read it.

But today I was in a coffee shop and one was sitting there so I had a look.

What a crap rag that is.

Going by the photos and articles, you'd think that Melbourne won the game!!

Unbelievable.

[Neil Appleby]

BTW Donny, what's with quoting AF points? Now that I know what they are I can push this a little more .

Every time I go looking for stats, I notice Dream Team points and you seem to like the AF ranking.

Can you tell me how these two rankings differ and how they are arrived at?
Is one more reliable than the other? Does one gave more emphasis to accurate disposal or marks or goals scored?

Whilst I'm at it, which scoring system do the coaches look at?

Swanny's ranking in AF yesterday as compared to say Frosty's, leads me to conclude that it emphasises possessions rather than game impact. I don't think Swann had much impact on the game. Neither did Beams until he bobbed up with 2 goals.

As a side note, I have my own system for scoring games and of course, I miss a lot as I watch it live, but my emphasis is the following:
effective disposal to a teammate: 1 tick
run and bounce & effective disposal: 2 ticks
pack mark: 2 ticks
turnover tackle: 2 ticks
goal: 3 ticks

As such, yesterday Young was streets ahead on my count and Beamsy while not getting votes, was ahead of Swanny in the last half when it really counted.

[MattyD]

Cloke - I know it is treacherous to even breathe this, but, I think he has very poor decision making. Let alone goal kicking ability.... very sorry to say. Yes, it was a dour game plan from Roos and a few of our boys had a bad day... but still something is amiss there.

A win is a win. Bring on the Bulldogs.

The season is starting to look very interesting

Disagree on Cloke, Matty; I thought he continued to show signs of getting back. His marking certainly was much stronger. And wasn't it nice to see him lead and have the ball delivered to his chest for a change? He needs to lead more often and do less of the out-muscling stuff.

He took seven marks and kicked two goals in a very low scoring game.
Yes, the chest mark was a rare sight.
I just noticed in a few games this year where his decision making under pressure was really poor. I guess that's true of lots of players especially under pressure. But seriously how long does it take to get into form? It's round 12.....

[jackcass]

Cloke - I know it is treacherous to even breathe this, but, I think he has very poor decision making. Let alone goal kicking ability.... very sorry to say. Yes, it was a dour game plan from Roos and a few of our boys had a bad day... but still something is amiss there.

A win is a win. Bring on the Bulldogs.

The season is starting to look very interesting

Disagree on Cloke, Matty; I thought he continued to show signs of getting back. His marking certainly was much stronger. And wasn't it nice to see him lead and have the ball delivered to his chest for a change? He needs to lead more often and do less of the out-muscling stuff.

He took seven marks and kicked two goals in a very low scoring game.
Yes, the chest mark was a rare sight.
I just noticed in a few games this year where his decision making under pressure was really poor. I guess that's true of lots of players especially under pressure. But seriously how long does it take to get into form? It's round 12.....

I think we (and supporters generally) make too many assumptions in ignorance. Scotty Burns in an interview on ABC suggested Cloke had had some injury issues early in the year and was working through them, even dropped a suggested knee issue... tendinitis? who knows... my point is we see these guys running around for a couple of hours during a game and make our judgements based on what we see. Just think we should be a little more forgiving as we never have the full story.