Thinking ahead to 2024 draft...(and beyond)

[Presti35]

^ possibly an upgrade of picks later on could help?

Pick 20 puts us in the ballgame for Whitlock #1, so I'm happy with that.

[The Black and White Lion]

As elated as I am in Fly's media re Stringer and going after Perryman, I'm a bit deflated by Fly's player over draft media today as per the excerpt below from SEN. He's just said he doesn't rate this year's super draft and probably doesn't rate DeMattia and Jiath from his first real draft in 2023. Partly explains why we held so many spots for the SSP also as Fly wanted eyes on the maybes first.

I reckon Fly has some learning to do here about people management because he's just shot down a whole bunch of people. This also explains some of the malaise in giving players like Fin Macrae and McInnes more game time. Fly doesn't rate them and may not be so interested in developing them.

I wouldn't want to be one of the 2 or 3 draft picks the Pies have to take this year either because Fly has just said he doesn't rate them either.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/09/25/ ... ist-build/

McRae says that he’s a coach that wants to bring players in over draft picks and he thinks that Perryman can make the Magpies better if he chooses to play for the club in 2025 and beyond.
“That's true, I'm a coach that wants to bring players in,” McRae told SEN The Run Home.
“I said that at the end of the season and it's hard such a hard market fishing from the same pond, but I don't want picks.
“I say to the list mismanagement, ‘I don't want picks, I want players, let's bring players in and make us better, not just any player, but players that are going to make us better’.

[piffdog]

^not sure we listened to the same interview. Given our first pick in the 30's you didnt expect him to come out and say how amazing this year's draft will be and that he wished we didnt swap our first rounder did you? I guess you can also hear what you want to hear.

I'd be happy if you can quote the part where he "doesnt rate Jiath and DeMattia", "doesnt rate this year's super draft" and "shot down a whole bunch of people"...

The philosophy is all about not bottoming out just so you can get the top picks in the draft. You also forget this guy spent a whole bunch of his coaching career as a development coach. I would also think that evidence so far is that drafting "players" is working pretty well.

I'm sure our existing young picks and potential picks this year will have plenty of time to speak to the coach about what he really thinks and be pumped to play for us.

[LaurieHolden]

^he didn't say he didn't rate it. Simply stated his own philosophy to list building.
He knows as well as anyone we don't have the organic picks.
Flys clearly about creating certainty as opposed to speculative picks via the draft.

"comes from a standpoint of continuously wanting to improve instead of falling down the ladder to collect picks and build from the ground up."

I guess it'll only work though if indeed we attract the likes of Perryman and others to shore up the list.
Melbourne are in a similar place at the moment.
I'm also not convinced supporters have patience for any multi-year period at the low end of the ladder.

We'll see in a few years if this approach indeed works, and once the legacy group of now veteran players he inherited are no longer on the list.
I'm remain forever thankful we've had multiple F/S's!!

[Culprit]

It's interesting how different people take different things away, it's glass half-full v glass half-empty. List management is important and this is why good list managers cost a lot of money.
Perryman is a Now player, DeMattia is a Future player and that is how I perceive Fly's comments.
We need to get better now and it's about balancing the list from 19-24-year-olds, 25 -30-year-olds, and 30+ Quality players on their way to retirement. At the moment I feel the list is to Old heavy and it's not an issue as they can play and in saying that they are all one injury away from retiring. We bring in players to fill a role and hope we find one that brings more than that.
At the moment we are playing poker in the draft with a pair of 5's, and that needs to change dramatically if we wish to grab quality. Outside the draft, it's the Free Agents we target.

[The Black and White Lion]

^ yep different people different perspectives. No Fly didn’t say those things, it’s my perception based on what’s written. You can have your own. I haven’t seen the interview so unsure if he’s misquoted. Don’t forget we created the draft situation by trading Schultz.

[think positive]

Demattia is a big beau, cant wait to see him in action

[Newelly]

^ yep different people different perspectives. No Fly didn’t say those things, it’s my perception based on what’s written. You can have your own. I haven’t seen the interview so unsure if he’s misquoted. Don’t forget we created the draft situation by trading Schultz.

And Fly and the team had just won a flag and realistically expected they could challenge again in 2024 by adding some ready made players.

[Charlie Oneeye]

“I say to the list mismanagement, ‘I don't want picks, I want players, let's bring players in and make us better, not just any player, but players that are going to make us better’.

Sullivan, Kreuger, Bytel say Hello

A few others worked out ok.

BTW, I like draft picks as much as anyone, but how about this ?
#17 Oliver Henry
#19 Finlay Macrae
#23 Reef McInnes
#30 Caleb Poulter
#31 Liam McMahon
#44 Beau McCreery

Rookies:
Jack Ginnivan, Isaac Chugg

In this instance, the picks could have been put to better use IMO... Fly may have a point.

[Presti35]

^very telling.

We had high hopes for Henry, Fin, and Reef. At least Beau has become a great player though. Henry would be one of our main forwards had he not wanted out. Fin and Reef have not made the most of their opportunities yet.

[Pies2016]

Having recently read Flys comments about not bottoming out, what we do with our eventual first pick in this draft ( however that looks - 12 or 20 possibly ) is going to be the centrepiece of our off season list activity.
It seems there is a decent chance the club could yet trade it out for a ready made quality player rather than take an early pick to draft night.
Point being, if we were to trade it out for a player, I’d suggest it could easily be for a player we haven’t even been linked with yet.
Houston would involve our first rounder but no other names mentioned ( who haven’t already committed elsewhere ) to date, have really warranted a straight swap for a first rounder in the teens. Given Ports current horrible draft hand ( albeit Houston leaving would ease that ) it could yet be that Lord and a second rounder ( or whatever ) are traded out in return for one of those above early picks.

I've said if all along, the Noble trade will put us back in the game … one way or the other.

[stui magpie]

The way I read Fly's comments about players over picks is simply that he wants to bring in players every year who will make the team better immediately, not in 3 years time.

Not many kids play break into the seniors and make their team better in the first season after being drafted. Naicos, Scheezle and Harley Reid would be 3 notable exceptions. Even if the kid is exceptional it usually takes 2-3 pre seasons for them to harden the body and build the tank. Trading for a physically mature body with exposed form against adults who fills a need is becoming more common for the non-stars.

It's a counter intuitive philosophy in some ways, but you look at the teams who spent years at the bottom getting high draft picks and making no progress against the teams that top up with mature bodies who fit a need and the latter seems more successful.

The only way you get a top 3 pick is to either bottom out (which we don't want to do). trade for it (which is hard without losing quality players) or get Father son selections.

Fly's philosophy will either work, or bugger us for years. I hope it's the former.

[Pies2016]

BTW, I like draft picks as much as anyone, but how about this ?
#17 Oliver Henry
#19 Finlay Macrae
#23 Reef McInnes
#30 Caleb Poulter
#31 Liam McMahon
#44 Beau McCreery

Rookies:
Jack Ginnivan, Isaac Chugg

In this instance, the picks could have been put to better use IMO... Fly may have a point.

Supporters following draft outcomes need to remind themselves there was no U18 footy played in Vic in 2020. It wasn't easy for recruiters to correctly identify elite talent when the Vic kids didn’t play competitive footy for a season.
A quick look at that draft in its entirety will remind anyone that draft was a poor return for most clubs. Our recruiters still picked Henry and Ginnivan in that year, so it’s hardly their fault that neither are still at the club.

Either trading for the now or drafting for the future could both be considered reasonable strategies in this upcoming off season.
Having said that, it seems Collingwood has already declared their hand for 2025, so it won’t be too long before we will all know the outcome of the direction they took.

[Pies2016]

Just another layer to add to our draft machinations is the strong showing of two Suns Academy players in the U17 Futures G F curtain raiser.
Given both their performances, I have no doubt the Suns would have considerable interest in our future first rounder during this trade period. Should Collingwood choose to trade out their F1, then I fully expect the Suns would have parted with their pick 12 as part of any exchange. Watch this space.

[warburton lad]

Noble, future first and Pick 33 out in exchange for Gold Coast Picks 12, 20 and 37 In

If Joe Richards goes to Port, we get Pick 36.
Bundle Picks 48 & 51 for Brisbane's future 3rd
Trade Picks 36 & 37 to Carlton for Pick 31 and a future 3rd

This would give us a 2024 draft hand of 12,20,31 and 84

Draft Harry Armstrong and one of the Whitlock twins(would prefer Matt Whitlock- 199cm defender who can swing forward) with 12 & 20- and hope that Noah Mraz (198cm defender) or Christian Moraes (183cm wingman- slides to pick 31

Obtain Perryman (186cms & 84kgs) as Unrestricted Free Agent

Losses: Noble, Richards, Future First and Picks 33, 36,37,48, 51

Gains: Picks 12, 20, 31 and Future 3rds (Brisbane & Carlton)