Post match. Hawks down Pies - all comments

[Piesnchess]

IT is a very, very old football saying, my late grandma used to say it, and jock McHale would have said it, and it applies especially to the Dawks. Its as true now, as it was 150 years ago, ===

" MAN UP, AND MIND YOUR MAN, NO LOOSE MEN, PICK EM UP " !!

WE allowed the Dawks too many unmanned players, and we again paid the penalty. Until we shut these pricks down, mind them properly, we will continue to struggle against them. YOU learn more from your defeats than wins, so Pies, START FCKUING LEARNING, FOR CHRISSAKES !!!!!

[Tannin]

The five worst problems with our game:

• Too many missed tackles
• Tackles did not stick
• We tackled like a mob of Girl Guides
• And not very good ones either
• Did I mention our soft-as-warm-butter tackles?

[Mugwump]

Unfortunately I agree with most of that jack

What we really really really really really really need

Is someone to teach the players to kick straight at goal

There were at least three shoots last night that should not have missed, 2 by our star forward.

Add that to at least 2 goals the (mates with) got they didnt deserve, and we almost win the game.

In the last 1/4 we did a great run down the field, got it round all their players, and actually slotted it. Why do just about all the other teams make that look so easy, when 90% of our goals leave even us fans exhausted?

Cannot stand that prick that played for the drugsters, but shit he was accurate. Get him. Whatever it takes. He even kept his hair neat.

I don't get it either TP. Our goal kicking seems to have been retarded by mental fragility harking back to even the days of a young chris tarrant. We seem to be able to find good marking forwards, who simply can't find that gap between the two big ones often enough.
For mine travis won't change his spots.......it's ingrained in him. It has nothing to do with his feet and everything to do with his head. I'm not sure how he overcomes that. Imagine how damaging the guy would be if he kicked just a little straighter.

Correct weight, which is why I'd have Cloke at CHF. He'd still kick two or three a game, and i don't think the "go-to"" FF role is a winner nowadays. Cloke at ChF would mark everything that came to our goalside of the centre line, and he'd be far harder to double team there without releasing others.

If you want a permanent FF, then I think Elliott is the man. Quick, spring-heeled, defensively able, and hard to match up on. And accurate in front of goal. Yes, he's the size of a milk-bottle, but one-out he'd be as terrifying as Cloke to an opposition.

[qldmagpie67]

We need to take stock of what actually happens everytime we play the hawks.
1. We let Hodge run free and influence the game
2. We collapse under there pressure when we have the ball
3. We look second rate tackling because they use their stronger bodies to shrug us off
4. Our kicking effectiveness or lack there of is exposed more than when we play other sides (I would hazard a guess we would have less than half the side with an efficiency rating over 60% last night)
5. Maxwell does absolutely nothing as spare defender against this mob. He isn't 3rd man up with Buddy or Roughhead, he isn't dropping into holes and blocking there running mid fielders streaming forward. He plays loss and gets caught on the rebound to often.
6. This one isn't just against the hawks but our kicking in front of goal is bordering on pathetic. Cloke for all his good working marking 20 out just of centre then to miss constantly is cause of real concern. Surely a guy at AFL level can be taught to kick straight. If he was missing from outside 50 on a angle you could forgive him these sins but really not from where he is missing them.
7. Kicking out we are just stagnant all the time no one is running to space or offering up avenues. We take the short bail out to the pocket option all the time. The opposition then zones to that half of the field. If we try to switch we turn it over because our field kicking is inaccurate.
8. They hit Swan & Pendles with there hard bodies often and give them very little space.
9. The Hawks work around the stoppages is great we have to many players forward of the ball we need more on the defensive side of the ball.
10. The hardest one to correct is the umpiring against this lot is like they are a protected species. Seriously if we look at Hodge or Mitchell the wrong way its a free. They get away with murder especially the hands in the back rule and holding the ball.

Unless we employ a different game plan and structure the same result we continually occur.
We need to run someone around the contest as a "hitman" role to clear some bodies from around the contest to give Swanny and Pendles time and space.
We need to have someone run with Mitchell all night and tackle him hard into the turf at every opportunity.
We need to make Hodge accountable and not be free.
Maxwell needs to get an opponent and stick to him.
We need to play man on man all over the ground.
And we need to make sure Travis is one on one with Lake because he will murder him.
Its not completely unfixable but the players need to be adaptable to different game plans and believe in them.
I saw enough positives last night to believe we have the cattle but they need to be herded in the right direction

[What'sinaname]

Hawks do two things well against us.

One. They trust one player to win the ball and release to a teammate sitting 5 metres off the contest. We over commit and send too many players to the contest and leave these Hawks free to get the next possessions

Two. Zone does not work. Hawks will move towards the forward 50 and then deliberately spread the zone and find the seam. They spread the zone by either coming out wide, or if they are in the flanks, they centre the ball. We can't cover that much space leaving easy seams for the Hawks to exploit.

Remedy

One. Don't over commit and send too many players to the same contest
Two. Man on man against the Hawks.

[woftam]

Hawks do two things well against us.

One. They trust one player to win the ball and release to a teammate sitting 5 metres off the contest. We over commit and send too many players to the contest and leave these Hawks free to get the next possessions

Two. Zone does not work. Hawks will move towards the forward 50 and then deliberately spread the zone and find the seam. They spread the zone by either coming out wide, or if they are in the flanks, they centre the ball. We can cover that much space leaving easy seams for the Hawks to exploit.

Remedy

One. Done over commit and send too many players to the same contest
Two. Man on man against the Hawks.

Spot on.

The Hawks do exactly the same things every time we play them. Unfortunately we do nothing to counter those tactics.

1 - They tag Heater with Lewis & make sure he contributes nothing.
He sucks against the Hawks time after time. We need to do something different. Play him forward perhaps? We have nothing to lose because he is a basket case against them.

2 - They play a spare defender back & we allow it every time. Either Gibson is free or Hodge. This is the sole reason we can't execute a forward press against them. They have a spare runner at every one of our forward contests. Allowing Hodge this luxury as a spare was suicide.
Our spare has been Nick Maxwell. Every team is happy with that trade off & I don't blame them. Hodge is about 10 times as damaging & effective as our skipper. Not only is Maxy not influencing the game, he also isn't helping out our tall backs on the very dangerous opponents.

3 - At every stoppage or contest they have at least 2 unopposed players defensive side of the contest just waiting for a handball so they can spread hard. We don't man them up & make them accountable.

4 - All their forwards stay out of their forward 50 to leave Buddy as much room as he wants to run into. The space he had when they spread was unbelievable. Conversely Trav had about 1/10th of the space buddy was presented with.

Clarko is a very astute coach & has Bucks's number. 5 - 0 now.
If we offer the same strategy against them we will continually get the same result. We must be a little more innovative & throw up something that makes them change the way they play. We play on their terms & it always seems to me that we don't have a specific plan to counter this mob, so we just hope something will be different rather than make things different.

[Mugwump]

Hawks do two things well against us.

One. They trust one player to win the ball and release to a teammate sitting 5 metres off the contest. We over commit and send too many players to the contest and leave these Hawks free to get the next possessions

Two. Zone does not work. Hawks will move towards the forward 50 and then deliberately spread the zone and find the seam. They spread the zone by either coming out wide, or if they are in the flanks, they centre the ball. We can cover that much space leaving easy seams for the Hawks to exploit.

Remedy

One. Done over commit and send too many players to the same contest
Two. Man on man against the Hawks.

Good post. I think you're probably right on both points. They always seemed to have men in the clear on the outside of a contest.

[What'sinaname]

Oops

[Big T]

I ran the drop Maxwell poll two weeks ago and around 70% want him in the team. But look at the logical comments tonight. The great man has become too slow and error prone to play his traditional role. Jordan Russell would be a better option imo.

[Greening gold]

Loathe that I am to criticise our players, and I love his skills, but I am thinking of renaming Sidebottom to Sidestepper. Couple of times watching the game I thought Sidey didn't go in as hard as Bally or Hodge or Selwood would have - a bit disappointing.
Also, where exactly is he supposed to be playing? He gets lots of possessions across the HB line but we need crumbing forwards to read the ball when Cloke gets spoiled and Sidey should be that man, but he's too rarely there.
We miss Daisy, and now it looks like he is not going to be there for us this year.
Also, did anyone see when Rioli was holding Caff's arm and pulling him backwards, 20m off the play, in the first quarter? What were the other two umpires doing? The umpire in the zone should be watching the ball, the other two should be watching the stuff off the play.

[Greening gold]

Unfortunately I agree with most of that jack

What we really really really really really really need

Is someone to teach the players to kick straight at goal

There were at least three shoots last night that should not have missed, 2 by our star forward.

Add that to at least 2 goals the (mates with) got they didnt deserve, and we almost win the game.

In the last 1/4 we did a great run down the field, got it round all their players, and actually slotted it. Why do just about all the other teams make that look so easy, when 90% of our goals leave even us fans exhausted?

Cannot stand that prick that played for the drugsters, but shit he was accurate. Get him. Whatever it takes. He even kept his hair neat.

I don't get it either TP. Our goal kicking seems to have been retarded by mental fragility harking back to even the days of a young chris tarrant. We seem to be able to find good marking forwards, who simply can't find that gap between the two big ones often enough.
For mine travis won't change his spots.......it's ingrained in him. It has nothing to do with his feet and everything to do with his head. I'm not sure how he overcomes that. Imagine how damaging the guy would be if he kicked just a little straighter.

Correct weight, which is why I'd have Cloke at CHF. He'd still kick two or three a game, and i don't think the "go-to"" FF role is a winner nowadays. Cloke at ChF would mark everything that came to our goalside of the centre line, and he'd be far harder to double team there without releasing others.

If you want a permanent FF, then I think Elliott is the man. Quick, spring-heeled, defensively able, and hard to match up on. And accurate in front of goal. Yes, he's the size of a milk-bottle, but one-out he'd be as terrifying as Cloke to an opposition.

Couldn't agree more. Elliott plays tall.

[Jezza]

Hawks do two things well against us.

One. They trust one player to win the ball and release to a teammate sitting 5 metres off the contest. We over commit and send too many players to the contest and leave these Hawks free to get the next possessions

Two. Zone does not work. Hawks will move towards the forward 50 and then deliberately spread the zone and find the seam. They spread the zone by either coming out wide, or if they are in the flanks, they centre the ball. We can't cover that much space leaving easy seams for the Hawks to exploit.

Remedy

One. Don't over commit and send too many players to the same contest
Two. Man on man against the Hawks.

Spot on mate.

I'm actually bemused as to why Buckley hasn't worked out that you can't beat Hawthorn by playing a zone defence. It doesn't work as Hawthorn are excellent users of the ball and they can easily just kick through it. For those who were wondering why Hawthorn had so many loose men in their forward 50, well that's because we were playing a zone defence rather than man on man footy which forces a contest and in this case would have made Hawthorn more accountable when they had possession of the ball.

When I saw nothing changed I kind of lost hope that we would win after seeing so many loose Hawks players in our defensive 50. Very frustrating to say the least.

[HAL]

How is Zone broken?

[Big T]

Hawks do two things well against us.

One. They trust one player to win the ball and release to a teammate sitting 5 metres off the contest. We over commit and send too many players to the contest and leave these Hawks free to get the next possessions

Two. Zone does not work. Hawks will move towards the forward 50 and then deliberately spread the zone and find the seam. They spread the zone by either coming out wide, or if they are in the flanks, they centre the ball. We can't cover that much space leaving easy seams for the Hawks to exploit.

Remedy

One. Don't over commit and send too many players to the same contest
Two. Man on man against the Hawks.

Spot on mate.

I'm actually bemused as to why Buckley hasn't worked out that you can't beat Hawthorn by playing a zone defence. It doesn't work as Hawthorn are excellent users of the ball and they can easily just kick through it. For those who were wondering why Hawthorn had so many loose men in their forward 50, well that's because we were playing a zone defence rather than man on man footy which forces a contest and in this case would have made Hawthorn more accountable when they had possession of the ball.

When I saw nothing changed I kind of lost hope that we would win after seeing so many loose Hawks players in our defensive 50. Very frustrating to say the least.

I think first and foremost, bucks knew top 4 is impossible due to the swans free ride so he tested was not so worried about the win but rather how we played the game, and in this case he was pleased.

Secondly, even the most one eyed magpie has to admit hawthorn have a far more talented list. Any strategy we employ must be how to beat a superior opponent.

[jack_spain]

IT is a very, very old football saying, my late grandma used to say it, and jock McHale would have said it, and it applies especially to the Dawks. Its as true now, as it was 150 years ago, ===

" MAN UP, AND MIND YOUR MAN, NO LOOSE MEN, PICK EM UP " !!

WE allowed the Dawks too many unmanned players, and we again paid the penalty. Until we shut these pricks down, mind them properly, we will continue to struggle against them. YOU learn more from your defeats than wins, so Pies, START FCKUING LEARNING, FOR CHRISSAKES !!!!!

And it starts in the coaches box. Clarkson 5 Buckley 0 (zilch, Buckley's and Nunn).