Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

David wrote:If Goodes doing a traditional dance on a football field takes us further from reconciliation, then I don't think he's the one with the problem.

Except it wasn't. It was a recently made up dance for an under 15 team.

King Monkey wrote:

watt price tully wrote:

Wokko wrote:If I want to hear social justice nonsense I'll jump onto social media, tumblr, or read The Age section with all the leftist women bitching about privilege, patriarchy and the rest of that bullshit. I love sport because it is a contest with winners and losers and rules of behavior. Keep the politics off the damn field, because that cringe worthy display was pure political bullshit. Michael Long is an inspiration for reconciliation, displays like this just make the peacock involved look like a twat.

Try watching / listening to Walled Aly on David's youtube link. Calls it like it is.

Michael Long faced reactionary bullshit at the time - you might be too young to remember but there was a backlash. The then mantra was "what happens on the field stays on the field" to excuse bad & racist behaviour amongst other things. Talkback & all were full of shrill outrage.

Now, "leftist women" - you still bangin' on about that.

Michael Long's action at the time was highly political: what else is the reconciliation movement?

That's where Jake Niall's article about the passive & the active type of "blacks" for want of a better term, provides a useful construct, indeed a good way of explaining some of the reactions to Goodes being booed.

There is a massive difference to Long's and Goodes' contributions to reconciliation.

Long made an actual point. He changed attitudes, he changed the way people thought & acted in certain situations for the better. He helped people understand that insults towards his culture went beyond the realms of banter, they genuinely hurt.
People don't think and act like they used to in that regard.

Goodes on the other hand, in a lot of people's eyes has done not a great deal else for the cause than divide opinion.
His first foray into the political statement spectrum had him turning an individualised insult from a crowd member at the footy, into evidence we have a problem with racism. A lot of people rejected that notion. The subsequent attempts to paint everyone who disagree and/or don't like this guy as racist, threatened, or backward were/are absolutely astonishing.
He is not disliked because he's "a black challenger", frankly all that is bullsh**. The argument is a construct to paint those with opposing views a certain way.

Spot on

Long went about it in a far different way, and everyone still respects him for it.

If Goodes wants the boos to go away, he needs to stop sniping, and acting for frees (see the classic example of him staging Friday night, went down like he had been shot, was barely touched.). And nobody, but nobody, likes a showpony when the other team is so far down, it's just plain unsporting behaviour. But it's ok, call me racist. Meh

So, it's a living tradition. That's like saying that every time Robert Helpmann choreographed something new, it wasn't ballet anymore.

Pies4shaw wrote:So, it's a living tradition. That's like saying that every time Robert Helpmann choreographed something new, it wasn't ballet anymore.

What's ballet

It's a form of traditional dance performed by indigenous French persons.

Pies4shaw wrote:It's a form of traditional dance performed by indigenous French persons.

You must be a crack up in court! That's gold!

John Wren wrote:you can not force people to reconcile. people don't like being lectured to or have things forced down their throat. it will create great resentment. this is a change issue and if we, as a country, are to embrace and integrate the indigenous aspects of our society we need to go on the journey together. the incident on friday night has done little to help the cause.

I agree with you 100% John. I also question Goode's motives and what he was hoping top achieve.

King Monkey wrote:

watt price tully wrote:

Wokko wrote:If I want to hear social justice nonsense I'll jump onto social media, tumblr, or read The Age section with all the leftist women bitching about privilege, patriarchy and the rest of that bullshit. I love sport because it is a contest with winners and losers and rules of behavior. Keep the politics off the damn field, because that cringe worthy display was pure political bullshit. Michael Long is an inspiration for reconciliation, displays like this just make the peacock involved look like a twat.

Try watching / listening to Walled Aly on David's youtube link. Calls it like it is.

Michael Long faced reactionary bullshit at the time - you might be too young to remember but there was a backlash. The then mantra was "what happens on the field stays on the field" to excuse bad & racist behaviour amongst other things. Talkback & all were full of shrill outrage.

Now, "leftist women" - you still bangin' on about that.

Michael Long's action at the time was highly political: what else is the reconciliation movement?

That's where Jake Niall's article about the passive & the active type of "blacks" for want of a better term, provides a useful construct, indeed a good way of explaining some of the reactions to Goodes being booed.

There is a massive difference to Long's and Goodes' contributions to reconciliation.

Long made an actual point. He changed attitudes, he changed the way people thought & acted in certain situations for the better. He helped people understand that insults towards his culture went beyond the realms of banter, they genuinely hurt.
People don't think and act like they used to in that regard.

Goodes on the other hand, in a lot of people's eyes has done not a great deal else for the cause than divide opinion.
His first foray into the political statement spectrum had him turning an individualised insult from a crowd member at the footy, into evidence we have a problem with racism. A lot of people rejected that notion. The subsequent attempts to paint everyone who disagree and/or don't like this guy as racist, threatened, or backward were/are absolutely astonishing.
He is not disliked because he's "a black challenger", frankly all that is bullsh**. The argument is a construct to paint those with opposing views a certain way.

Like David was saying: who was saying the reaction to Goodes is about reconciliation? Not relevant.

Long, at the time was not supported in fact hammered by quite a few (lets say lots of people). Young fellas like yourself I presume might not recall that time. We as a society have progressed remarkably well & the AFL & its polices have been brilliant with respect to racist attitudes"what happens of the field stays on the field" etc.

The reaction to Goodes's behaviour is rooted in a few things which in my view include:

1. His kneeing of players / dirty type play / staging;
2. Tall poppy syndrome;
2. His taking a stand against a racist comment he'd heard that turned out to be a 13 yr old & the same people who blame him for this seemed to have missed his pleas to not dump on the girl & as he pointed she probably had no idea what she was saying: (ignorance not being seen as a virtue);
3. The awarding of Australian of the Year - as though he was responsible for nominating & awarding the title to himself;

However not withstanding that list (yet probably contained in part within it) lies something in my view is more than just that. The list does not explain the histrionic & shrill reaction to Goodes's behaviour.

For me, it is well explained by the two previously mentioned & well thought out arguments. I would also add Professor Colin Tatz to that (who was featured on the AWAKEN programme I referenced last week).

Frankly it aint's bullshit at all as you were keen to say. But people are entitled to have wrong opinions

Good to hear Tony Lockett on his acceptance speech that I head a grab of this morning coming out & supporting Goodes saying what a remarkable man he is

the monkey king is no spring chicken i can assure you of that. that comment about "young fellas like yourself" is more apt for the likes of david. though, it's all relative, the monkey king could be young compared to your good self.

John Wren wrote:the monkey king is no spring chicken i can assure you of that. that comment about "young fellas like yourself" is more apt for the likes of david. though, it's all relative, the monkey king could be young compared to your good self.

Anyone younger than me is young

I take your point on most of that.
Agree with some, if not in entirety.

To clarify, I should've had the phrase "in this day and age," after "it's bullsh**," in my previous post.
Very legitimate stance in the past, not so today in my view.

I'm probably a little in between where you & JW have placed me.
Was at the game in 95 where the Long/Monky incident took place; old enough to have certain thoughts provoked by the discussion, too young to have had any sort of rigid "worldly" view on it until a few years later thinking back on it all.

(I was born in 1982, but consider my "footy age" 5-10 years older than I actually am; a student of the game I'd like to think. - not so much on matters outside of footy though..... )

1982? without wanting to do you a disservice, i thought you'd be closer to my age range.

Wokko wrote:I've heard plenty criticize Eddie on this very topic, have you been under a rock? A white man just has to open his mouth and every holier than thou halfwit is down his throat in half a second. Unless people toe the PC line on thus they get shouted down and insulted. This forum is one of the most polite and balanced discussions on this issue I've seen (scary I know )

People have criticised him all right, but what I'm saying is that no-one has placed the burden of reconciliation on him. Going on several posts in this thread and the opinions of certain media commentators, that appears to be considered Goodes's responsibility alone.

There are a number of possible motivations for these discourses, and none of them are positively good. But it most certainly feeds back into what Aly was saying.

Our integration of Aboriginal culture into mainstream Australia fails in comparison with that of a country like New Zealand with there Maori heritage.

Perhaps we could learn something from them.

swoop42 wrote:Our integration of Aboriginal culture into mainstream Australia fails in comparison with that of a country like New Zealand with there Maori heritage.

Perhaps we could learn something from them.

the establishment of the treaty of waitangi has helped with this. also being a smaller population has likely been a contributor.

i lived there for many years. you can very much see the disparities between how the acceptance of the maoris differs markedly from the acceptance of the aborigines.

both experience the same socio-economic problems and have been beneficiaries of affirmative action but there seems to be less animosity shown to the maoris. some of the key maoris tribes sit on an extraordinary amount of wealth.