Crimes that deserve the death penalty?

[think positive]

[David]

Again, you're putting a monetary value on human life. You're saying "it's only worth $x to keep a certain person alive". You may be comfortable applying such logic to violent criminals, but to me it's one step away from naziism and other anti-humanist ideologies.

[HAL]

Again, What you said was too complicated for me.

[think positive]

Again, you're putting a monetary value on human life. You're saying "it's only worth $x to keep a certain person alive". You may be comfortable applying such logic to violent criminals, but to me it's one step away from naziism and other anti-humanist ideologies.

but the fact is someone has to pay, nothing is free

im more than happy for them not to have a mattress, a blanket, or food, im sure they can forage on rats, there must be an old mine somewhere you can dump them at the bottom of, save on the cost of prison guards too.

by the way, just when do those violent criminals get to share the love? when does their victim get some kind of sorry in any shape or form from these heathens you want to hand raise free of charge

and again, nothing is free, someone, meaning we, have to pay,

and guess what? we have to earn our living, our comforts, why the hell shouldnt they?

as for the comparison with the nazis, harldy, they were killing innocent people for absolutely no reason, so the only comparison i can see would be with the criminals

[Jezza]

I understand that many people in favour of the death penalty see it as a form of reciprocal justice for those who commit heinous crimes but it's been proven that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent plus what kind of society are we living in when the state can sanction the killing of somebody. Those who commit a serious crime such as murder or rape deserve a lengthy jail sentence or possibly a life sentence depending on the circumstances of each individual case.

In the past I've been somewhat undecided on this issue but the more research and reading I've done on the issue the more I've found that the death penalty has little benefits for society in reducing crime and the amount of expenditure that is required for such a process to take place is higher than keeping someone imprisoned for life.

The death penalty has the ability to be opened up to uncertainty and contentious issues in regards to a person's guilt and I'd prefer to live in a society where such practices don't take place and the state doesn't have the power to legislate in favour of it.

Thankfully Australia has moved past this but that's not to say that the justice system has been all that great recently and I think the issue of sentencing is something that has to be hot on the agenda as too many offenders are receiving lenient sentences that do not reflect the serious nature of the crime committed.

In regards to this particular case it's horrific and the case of the mother and daughter being murdered has been disturbing to read and hear about recently.

[Skids]

You're making the mistake of calling this monster a human David.
Scum like this are oxygen thieves who do not deserve to co exist with humans.

[David]

One of the difficult but essential things we need to reconcile in our minds is that people like this - and Anders Breivik, and Adrian Bayley, and even Adolf Hitler - are human beings, complex human beings like you and me with emotions and hopes and dreams, not monsters or extraterrestrials.

I know it seems weird for me to say this as an atheist, but I sometimes wish that our society would remember some of its own Christian cultural background, and the fundamental belief that all people are loved by God, and all are capable of redemption and forgiveness. That's not so much an argument for or against capital punishment as an argument for humanity and empathy. It's a beautiful doctrine, and it saddens me that our society no longer seems to have any time for it (if it ever did). Our society has become one of hatred, and judgement, and of kicking the weak while they're down. How we treat criminals is actually a hugely significant part of that.

I am not saying that we should feel less empathy for victims and their families. It is essential that we can put ourselves in their shoes. But if you profess to care so much about children, remember that this alleged rapist/murderer was once a child too who needed love and compassion. We can help children to grow up with empathy by providing a positive example in the way we treat and talk about others.

[luvdids]

but the fact is someone has to pay, nothing is free

im more than happy for them not to have a mattress, a blanket, or food, im sure they can forage on rats, there must be an old mine somewhere you can dump them at the bottom of, save on the cost of prison guards too.

by the way, just when do those violent criminals get to share the love? when does their victim get some kind of sorry in any shape or form from these heathens you want to hand raise free of charge

and again, nothing is free, someone, meaning we, have to pay,

and guess what? we have to earn our living, our comforts, why the hell shouldnt they?

as for the comparison with the nazis, harldy, they were killing innocent people for absolutely no reason, so the only comparison i can see would be with the criminals

Geez I hope you don't donate to the Salvos. I don't & never will for the simple reason that they provide Christmas presents to prisoners. They keep that little part of their charity quiet.
Poor prisoner, you broke the law, ended up in jail so here you go, have a nice little present. Get stuffed! More than happy to donate Christmas presents to the needy, not the imprisoned!

[David]

Well, as I said above, it sounds like they're real Christians. Good on them. A bit of kindness can go a long way.

Before you bag out the Salvos, probably worth keeping in mind that they already do way more for the poor and needy than most people on here.

[stui magpie]

but the fact is someone has to pay, nothing is free

im more than happy for them not to have a mattress, a blanket, or food, im sure they can forage on rats, there must be an old mine somewhere you can dump them at the bottom of, save on the cost of prison guards too.

by the way, just when do those violent criminals get to share the love? when does their victim get some kind of sorry in any shape or form from these heathens you want to hand raise free of charge

and again, nothing is free, someone, meaning we, have to pay,

and guess what? we have to earn our living, our comforts, why the hell shouldnt they?

as for the comparison with the nazis, harldy, they were killing innocent people for absolutely no reason, so the only comparison i can see would be with the criminals

Geez I hope you don't donate to the Salvos. I don't & never will for the simple reason that they provide Christmas presents to prisoners. They keep that little part of their charity quiet.
Poor prisoner, you broke the law, ended up in jail so here you go, have a nice little present. Get stuffed! More than happy to donate Christmas presents to the needy, not the imprisoned!

I donate to the Salvos.

I wasn't aware of that but don't really care. Goodonem. I've known a few decent blokes who did time in their youth for dumb things and fixed their shit up after getting out. One young bloke I tried to help out getting him to footy etc when he was in under 13's playing in my sons team but his Dad was too big a bad influence. He's 25 now and my sons saw his mug on the "wanted" on the cops Facebook the other day. Silly bastard.

[David]

^ Some people have their cards marked pretty young. Doesn't mean some won't turn it around, but it's a pretty good predictor of future behaviour unfortunately.

[stui magpie]

^

Yeah it's a waste. he was actually a good kid but when his dad was out of gaol he was the apprentice, breaking into cars, stealing car stereos and whatever else they could find at the train station carpark about 400m from home.

I'd go to pick the kid up on Sunday morning to take him to footy and more than once he's done an all nighter at some much older peoples house, smoking cones. Got his first tatt at 13.

Cops and the system gave him a lot of slack for a variety of reasons but all that did in the end was make him feel bulletproof so the penny never dropped and he kept going and escalated.

Silly bastard.

[think positive]

but the fact is someone has to pay, nothing is free

im more than happy for them not to have a mattress, a blanket, or food, im sure they can forage on rats, there must be an old mine somewhere you can dump them at the bottom of, save on the cost of prison guards too.

by the way, just when do those violent criminals get to share the love? when does their victim get some kind of sorry in any shape or form from these heathens you want to hand raise free of charge

and again, nothing is free, someone, meaning we, have to pay,

and guess what? we have to earn our living, our comforts, why the hell shouldnt they?

as for the comparison with the nazis, harldy, they were killing innocent people for absolutely no reason, so the only comparison i can see would be with the criminals

Geez I hope you don't donate to the Salvos. I don't & never will for the simple reason that they provide Christmas presents to prisoners. They keep that little part of their charity quiet.
Poor prisoner, you broke the law, ended up in jail so here you go, have a nice little present. Get stuffed! More than happy to donate Christmas presents to the needy, not the imprisoned!

Thanks for the heads up

[think positive]

One of the difficult but essential things we need to reconcile in our minds is that people like this - and Anders Breivik, and Adrian Bayley, and even Adolf Hitler - are human beings, complex human beings like you and me with emotions and hopes and dreams, not monsters or extraterrestrials.

I know it seems weird for me to say this as an atheist, but I sometimes wish that our society would remember some of its own Christian cultural background, and the fundamental belief that all people are loved by God, and all are capable of redemption and forgiveness. That's not so much an argument for or against capital punishment as an argument for humanity and empathy. It's a beautiful doctrine, and it saddens me that our society no longer seems to have any time for it (if it ever did). Our society has become one of hatred, and judgement, and of kicking the weak while they're down. How we treat criminals is actually a hugely significant part of that.

I am not saying that we should feel less empathy for victims and their families. It is essential that we can put ourselves in their shoes. But if you profess to care so much about children, remember that this alleged rapist/murderer was once a child too who needed love and compassion. We can help children to grow up with empathy by providing a positive example in the way we treat and talk about others.

And yet you still haven't answered the question, who is going to pay for it all?

My father was and is, a mean nasty violent drunk, it doesn't give me the right to go out and do that to someone else. Indeed I learnt from it, don't go out and do it to someone else. I'm damn over this shit.

And jezza as for the it's no deterrent, it sure is to the bastard with the lead in his black heart, or the electric shock zapping his body!

[think positive]

but the fact is someone has to pay, nothing is free

im more than happy for them not to have a mattress, a blanket, or food, im sure they can forage on rats, there must be an old mine somewhere you can dump them at the bottom of, save on the cost of prison guards too.

by the way, just when do those violent criminals get to share the love? when does their victim get some kind of sorry in any shape or form from these heathens you want to hand raise free of charge

and again, nothing is free, someone, meaning we, have to pay,

and guess what? we have to earn our living, our comforts, why the hell shouldnt they?

as for the comparison with the nazis, harldy, they were killing innocent people for absolutely no reason, so the only comparison i can see would be with the criminals

Geez I hope you don't donate to the Salvos. I don't & never will for the simple reason that they provide Christmas presents to prisoners. They keep that little part of their charity quiet.
Poor prisoner, you broke the law, ended up in jail so here you go, have a nice little present. Get stuffed! More than happy to donate Christmas presents to the needy, not the imprisoned!

I donate to the Salvos.

I wasn't aware of that but don't really care. Goodonem. I've known a few decent blokes who did time in their youth for dumb things and fixed their shit up after getting out. One young bloke I tried to help out getting him to footy etc when he was in under 13's playing in my sons team but his Dad was too big a bad influence. He's 25 now and my sons saw his mug on the "wanted" on the cops Facebook the other day. Silly bastard.

And yet he did have someone try to help him. When does it become time for him to help himself?

I know a couple of blokes that did time too, for things like theft, not hurting someone, and yes they have come good and good on them, but some people do not deserve another chance.

Big difference between stealing someone's car when it's parked on the kerb, than holding a gun to someone's head, and taking it that way. You can't just put it all in one pile. Prison is too easy.

Something like this might actually teach them something
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tent- ... le/2546924

You have to give people a reason to rehabilitate, most of em are lazy sods, you have to put them out of their comfort zone to get them to shift themselves