Happy Australia Day

[pietillidie]

[David]

That is an interesting poll result and makes one wonder if there might be a "silent majority" of Aboriginal people whose views on this aren’t getting aired in these discussions. Of course it’d be useful to break those numbers down further: what part of that 73% prefer the term "Survival Day" (a name that has caught on in Indigenous communities due to its more forward- rather than backward-looking sentiment) to the two options given? And how many are so disenfranchised by the very notion of Australia as a country that debates over changing the date or name of the day seem like an exercise in putting lipstick on a pig? (This is a not insignificant sentiment that one sees around.)

Even accounting for those possibilities, though, we might still find that a majority of Indigenous people are still reasonably happy and comfortable with the day as is, and even in some cases feel pride or other positive meaning in it. This poll doesn’t show that, but it is something that warrants further investigation and arguably should impact on how this issue is approached. Because the way that this discussion is had in (primarily white) progressive circles, one could be forgiven for presuming that changing the date is not only supported but considered a matter of urgency by 90+% of Indigenous Australians, that holding Australia Day on 26 January is by and large felt to be a bit of a kick in the guts, that it poisons their relationship with the country and so on. And clearly, no small number of Aboriginal people do feel that way. But the polling we have to hand (both in Eddiesmith’s link and the one I posted) doesn’t really seem to indicate that that is majority sentiment at all, and perhaps even suggests something quite different. At any rate, further data is needed.

[stui magpie]

^

The problem is there's almost zero chance of being able to have a sensible debate. The agenda has been hijacked by the white progressive green left shriekers on behalf of what they consider Indigenous people should want.

If we can get them to STFU there might be an opportunity to actually engage with Indigenous people and come up with a solution for all Australians but that won't happen.

[think positive]

So we just change everything the professional protesters demand?

Over 70% of Aboriginals polled said they still think of Jan 26 as Australia Day, not invasion day. Of course the younger greenie crowd think differently, they always need something to bitch about. Give in here and they’ll just move on to the next issue they think needs changing.

Deciding it’s too hard is the same attitude police had to stopping the BLM protest, can’t upset anyone, how great did that turn out for Victorians?

it depends where the poll was done i guess.

[Pies4shaw]

That is an interesting poll result and makes one wonder if there might be a "silent majority" of Aboriginal people whose views on this aren’t getting aired in these discussions. Of course it’d be useful to break those numbers down further: what part of that 73% prefer the term "Survival Day" (a name that has caught on in Indigenous communities due to its more forward- rather than backward-looking sentiment) to the two options given? And how many are so disenfranchised by the very notion of Australia as a country that debates over changing the date or name of the day seem like an exercise in putting lipstick on a pig? (This is a not insignificant sentiment that one sees around.)

Even accounting for those possibilities, though, we might still find that a majority of Indigenous people are still reasonably happy and comfortable with the day as is, and even in some cases feel pride or other positive meaning in it. This poll doesn’t show that, but it is something that warrants further investigation and arguably should impact on how this issue is approached. Because the way that this discussion is had in (primarily white) progressive circles, one could be forgiven for presuming that changing the date is not only supported but considered a matter of urgency by 90+% of Indigenous Australians, that holding Australia Day on 26 January is by and large felt to be a bit of a kick in the guts, that it poisons their relationship with the country and so on. And clearly, no small number of Aboriginal people do feel that way. But the polling we have to hand (both in Eddiesmith’s link and the one I posted) doesn’t really seem to indicate that that is majority sentiment at all, and perhaps even suggests something quite different. At any rate, further data is needed.

Reading that Roy Morgan release, it is notable that (a) the poll was conducted as a "snap SMS" survey - so one didn't participate if, amongst many other variables, one didn't have the technology; and (b) although it identified that the poll was "conducted with" 1,236 Australians, it doesn't identify whether that was the number of people who were asked or the number of people who responded and, more particularly, doesn't say how many indigenous Australians were asked or how many actually responded. That last issue is important. If the poll was "ethnically" representative, they probably asked (at most) under 40 indigenous people.

[David]

For sure! And the Guardian poll has a similar sample size, so as you say, by the time we get down to Indigenous respondents we're almost looking at the size of a focus group. Still, having said that, some numbers are a better reflection of public sentiment than some mix of gut feeling and shared Facebook posts, which is honestly the extent of most progressives' data on this. It remains a sad fact of life that most inner-city lefties are separated from the vast bulk of Aboriginal people along geographical, class and income lines, and only interact with these issues as part of a generalised anti-racism/anti-colonialism sentiment or, worse, an opportunity to virtue-signal (hence all the solidarity memes that suddenly appear around Australia Day and disappear for the remainder of the year). I'm honestly not sure how much most of them actually care about Indigenous people unless there is some injustice to position themselves against.

[Tannin]

What Eddie post fraudulently in order to tell big fibs about something?

Nahh ....

[Tannin]

No-one has a problem with the name "Australia Day". The problem is and always has been with the stupid, offensive date. Change the date, problem goes away. Easy as that.

[David]

What Eddie post fraudulently in order to tell big fibs about something?

Nahh ....

To be fair, his claim was a reasonably accurate summation of the poll's findings, and I'm saying that as someone who was sceptical when I read it.

[Pies4shaw]

Yes - the problem isn't with eddie's post, it is with the poll. I think the claim is based on an incredibly small sample of indigenous people - so small, that Roy Morgan hasn't even told us how many indigenous people gave responses.

[eddiesmith]

I expect it won’t happen for at least another 4 years, until the ALP fluke a minority government and then change it to keep the greens happy.

But then what will they go after, Anzac Day or Easter?

[Bucks5]

I am not wedded to the date, but Jan 26 does spread out the public holidays quite nicely and days off in summer is better than days off in winter.

Depending on the new date, there could be a three month gap between New Year's day and the next public holiday (which could be Labour day).

[watt price tully]

What Eddie post fraudulently in order to tell big fibs about something?

Nahh ....

Hmm. Eddie being fast and loose with the facts: I'm shocked

[watt price tully]

Yes - the problem isn't with eddie's post, it is with the poll. I think the claim is based on an incredibly small sample of indigenous people - so small, that Roy Morgan hasn't even told us how many indigenous people gave responses.

Yes but it's the haste and lack of thoroughness that calls into question motivation

[stui magpie]

Assuming changing the date is an easy fix is assuming that the Indigenous population is homogeneous when they are far from it. There are a multitude of different nations from different areas with different cultures and within that different people. Assuming that all Indigenous people find the date offensive is as racist as assuming that all white people don't and as stupid as assuming all Europeans have common culture and values.

yes there is a cohort of Indigenous people who are offended that the anniversary of the beginning of their dispossession and other hardships is celebrated as our national day.

There is another cohort who want to move forward and are comfortable with the date and happy to celebrate on it provided that there is due acknowledgement of the past, not airbrushing of it. Some of these get distressed by the actions of protestors

A third cohort don't really care about the date as it's a far lower priority than things like constitutional recognition, a treaty, a genuine national reconciliation action plan and indigenous voice

A fourth cohort couldn't give a rat fvck about Australia day or what date it's on as they're more focused on day to day concerns like poverty, substance abuse, sexual abuse, family violence, youth incarceration etc.

The first cohort gets all the publicity as their activists got latched onto by the green left, they do their protest marches and media gets filled with debates that people are weary off and becoming scared to participate in but the other 3 are not necessarily less significant in size, just in voice.

Personally I'm open to changing the date if that's the best outcome, but not at the behest of white bandwagoners who's actual interaction with Indigenous people is limited to owning a copy of Storm Boy. Finish the current work of creating an Indigenous advisory voice to federal parliament, use them to access a range of Indigenous opinions, come up with some options and put it to the people via a plebiscite.