Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

Donny wrote:Lazza (and others) .... Get real.

10 pages on a Carlton player ???

Actually Donny, I think you'll find that some of us logical and extremely loyal Collingwood fans are trying hard to challenge the scum loving Daisy fans to get real......

Lazza wrote:

gurugeoff wrote:i think you are all being too hard on Daisy. Players get cut by the club all the time. There is no loyalty from the club to the player when your time is approaching.

At the end of the day, who really remembers that Thommo, Tuddy, McKenna, McGuane, Moore etc ever played for anyone else. They are all immortal Collingwood champions.

I think you are purposely re-writing history to suit your needs dude. The traitor did NOT initially get cut by the club. There WAS indeed much loyalty extended to him from the club. It was the traitor himself who made a choice to piss off to his sugar daddy MM and purposely priced himself out of Collingwood's reach. We ALL know that the club is bigger than the individual, and Collingwood had no other valid choice other than to let him go to get the best deal for the club. I cannot see how Collingwood can be implicated at all in this matter when the traitor cunningly chose his own outcome.
To each their own but I will NEVER have the time for this mongrel ever again due to the opinion I have posted above about the decisions he knowingly made.

do you also call Young, Lynch, Ball, White, Anthony Rocca, Paul Licuria, Nathan Buckley mongrels?

I think everyone is to eager to make it seem like Collingwood did everything they could to keep him. I am suspicious we were no where near Carlton on price and I think that is because at the end of the day, Buckley wanted to go in a different direction.

It has worked out well. Scharenberg and Adams for Thomas and Shaw. Basically just got 5-7 years younger with about the same potential.

E wrote:

Lazza wrote:

gurugeoff wrote:i think you are all being too hard on Daisy. Players get cut by the club all the time. There is no loyalty from the club to the player when your time is approaching.

At the end of the day, who really remembers that Thommo, Tuddy, McKenna, McGuane, Moore etc ever played for anyone else. They are all immortal Collingwood champions.

I think you are purposely re-writing history to suit your needs dude. The traitor did NOT initially get cut by the club. There WAS indeed much loyalty extended to him from the club. It was the traitor himself who made a choice to piss off to his sugar daddy MM and purposely priced himself out of Collingwood's reach. We ALL know that the club is bigger than the individual, and Collingwood had no other valid choice other than to let him go to get the best deal for the club. I cannot see how Collingwood can be implicated at all in this matter when the traitor cunningly chose his own outcome.
To each their own but I will NEVER have the time for this mongrel ever again due to the opinion I have posted above about the decisions he knowingly made.

do you also call Young, Lynch, Ball, White, Anthony Rocca, Paul Licuria, Nathan Buckley mongrels?

I think everyone is to eager to make it seem like Collingwood did everything they could to keep him. I am suspicious we were no where near Carlton on price and I think that is because at the end of the day, Buckley wanted to go in a different direction.

It has worked out well. Scharenberg and Adams for Thomas and Shaw. Basically just got 5-7 years younger with about the same potential.

I stand to be corrected but AFAIK Young, Lynch, Ball, White and Paul Licuria were NOT wanted players at their other clubs ( I KNOW for a fact that Ross Lyon hated Luke Ball at the 'aints). As for Rocca, he was feeling home sick as a young kid in Sydney. We have let a few players go ourself due to them being homesick. Bucks was a passionate young footballer who always (before ever being drafted) wanted to play finals regularly in Victoria on the MCG at the biggest AFL club. Some may question his attidude towards Brisbane (and that is reasonable) but he was transparent about what he wanted to do with his footy at all times. He did not tell Brisbane kids to hang on to their jumpers the day before he left for Collingwood.........

Wanted is a relative thing. If my market value is $4.5 million and my club offers me $1.5, I'd say I was unwanted by my club too....... Maybe its just me.

I think market value is a relative thing as well. To balance the books for the benefit of the club first and foremost, it may be that Collingwood's offer was slightly less than market value. Maybe it was, I'm not sure if this was a fact. However, it is not the case that these players are on shit money (in fact quite the opposite), and there are heaps of occasions and examples at all clubs where players choose to stay for less money. I think Cloke, Swanny and a few others at Collingwood fit this bill. Players at Geelong did this too. Traitor WANTED to leave Collingwood at all costs.
So yes, maybe its you.............

Lazza wrote:

Donny wrote:Lazza (and others) .... Get real.

10 pages on a Carlton player ???

Actually Donny, I think you'll find that some of us logical and extremely loyal Collingwood fans are trying hard to challenge the scum loving Daisy fans to get real......

Logic; a proper or reasonable way of thinking about or understanding something.
As for your way of understanding...I don't think so

Your EXTREME loyalty is akin to the delusion often displayed by other extremists..... where uncontrollable emotions are fair game and justify any words or actions. Well, they're not.

The way I understand it, Dale Thomas never had a father and Mick became the closest thing to that for him. I understand him wanting to play for Mick. I may not agree with him leaving the Pies, but I understandwhy he did.

It's frickin football for god's sake. There are bigger things in life.

Lazza wrote:I think market value is a relative thing as well. To balance the books for the benefit of the club first and foremost, it may be that Collingwood's offer was slightly less than market value. Maybe it was, I'm not sure if this was a fact. However, it is not the case that these players are on shit money (in fact quite the opposite), and there are heaps of occasions and examples at all clubs where players choose to stay for less money. I think Cloke, Swanny and a few others at Collingwood fit this bill. Players at Geelong did this too. Traitor WANTED to leave Collingwood at all costs.
So yes, maybe its you.............

Last time i checked, market value is what the market is willing to pay you (as defined - what a willing buyer is prepared to pay a willing seller). What you are discussing is relative value. A very different thing.

I dont disagree that Collingwood probably did the right thing by Collingwood in refusing to pay Dale "Daisy" Thomas anywhere near market because of reasons known to itself (but they have told us they werent willing to risk capspace on an injury risk).

And yes, sometimes market value is determined in a frothy market, or certain particpants have their reason for paying more which can lead to increases in market value (and those of you who are paying market for property right now, be very careful).

So maybe, subjectively, his value isnt what he got paid by carlton, but one thing that cannot be disputed is that what Carlton paid daisy is the exact market value for Daisy. by definition that is a FACT.

The second point you make is that players leave a lot of money on the table to stay with a club. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fact that Travis cloke is being held up as an example of an honorable man who accepted less than market to stay. how f'n short are peoples memories.

dude, there is no way in the world Travis cloke would have accepted a 2 year deal at the price he took instead of 5. you may recall it took an entire year for them to negotiate going from 4 to 5 years.

In all the examples you note of supposed loyalty, you are missing two big (actually MASSIVE) diferentiators.

1. The discount was purely around the margins (10%-15%) - here the difference between 2 years at a discount and 5 years at market is obscenely far apart.

2. neither of those players had at that time possible career ending injuries to deal with. This means that Dale's decision had to factor in that there is a chance this is his last EVER payday as an AFL footballer. Cloke should still be in his prime in 4 years (and yet he spent a year negotiating for that 5th year). Thomas may be retired in 2 years. Very REAL difference mate.

I personally dont think daisy had a choice. We didnt give him one. and Carlton didnt give him one. History may show that daisy was incredibly lucky to have found the one club with such a win now mentality that they had to risk the next 5 years in the chance of getting a gun. Collingwood proved that they didnt have the appetitie for that.

Let him play!

PS: since Jack spain has been booted, i think i am going to take the anti-club position this year (last year i was very pro club on most issues to balance the Site). Does this mean i need to start accusing myself of being a club plant/

Have a nice season Lazza and no need to apologize for your last post. Its understood.

Thomas is an idiot. He will never get the commercial opportunities he had at the Pies and in the end will lose. (Not loose). If his ankle is stuffed the scum will drop him quicker than a pommy outfielder. But it is his decision and he ,and us, live with it. We sit back and watch his replacement kick arse. Plus he has to put up with Dave The Man abusing him over the fence. He must be quaking in his million dollar boots.

ronrat wrote:Thomas is an idiot. He will never get the commercial opportunities he had at the Pies and in the end will lose. (Not loose). If his ankle is stuffed the scum will drop him quicker than a pommy outfielder. But it is his decision and he ,and us, live with it. We sit back and watch his replacement kick arse. Plus he has to put up with Dave The Man abusing him over the fence. He must be quaking in his million dollar boots.

yes, i mean he was genuinely loved by all of us........... we would never have forgotten about him if he pulled up lame in round 1 and never played again. We are too loyal for that!

E wrote:

ronrat wrote:Thomas is an idiot. He will never get the commercial opportunities he had at the Pies and in the end will lose. (Not loose). If his ankle is stuffed the scum will drop him quicker than a pommy outfielder. But it is his decision and he ,and us, live with it. We sit back and watch his replacement kick arse. Plus he has to put up with Dave The Man abusing him over the fence. He must be quaking in his million dollar boots.

yes, i mean he was genuinely loved by all of us........... we would never have forgotten about him if he pulled up lame in round 1 and never played again. We are too loyal for that!

E we are footy supporters and Pie Supporters at that! There are a lot of great players out there that play for other clubs. Unfortunately they wear the wrong colours. It's a tribal game Thomas has relinquished our colours to vest the Crappiest colours in the comp! It was his choice. He ultimately made the decision and as much as he excided me and my daughter in the past. When he walks out there on the MCG wearing blue, the deep rooted hatred for those colours will erupt feelings and language that the good lord will not like to hear!

I am absolutely 100% totally ok with that. I too will boo for him very loudly at the game. that is my right and yours and, as you say, that is what we love about the game. You dont have to justify this feeling or this attitude and it bears no judgement on Dale Thomas or his integrity. he wears the scum uniform, he is Scum!

I just think it is ridiculous for people to get on their high horse about it and argue that he did something any different to what everyone else would of and should of done if they were in his situation.

E wrote:

Mossi wrote:

E wrote: yes, i mean he was genuinely loved by all of us........... we would never have forgotten about him if he pulled up lame in round 1 and never played again. We are too loyal for that!

E we are footy supporters and Pie Supporters at that! There are a lot of great players out there that play for other clubs. Unfortunately they wear the wrong colours. It's a tribal game Thomas has relinquished our colours to vest the Crappiest colours in the comp! It was his choice. He ultimately made the decision and as much as he excided me and my daughter in the past. When he walks out there on the MCG wearing blue, the deep rooted hatred for those colours will erupt feelings and language that the good lord will not like to hear!

I am absolutely 100% totally ok with that. I too will boo for him very loudly at the game. that is my right and yours and, as you say, that is what we love about the game. You dont have to justify this feeling or this attitude and it bears no judgement on Dale Thomas or his integrity. he wears the scum uniform, he is Scum!

I just think it is ridiculous for people to get on their high horse about it and argue that he did something any different to what everyone else would of and should of done if they were in his situation.

Thomas was a much loved Pies player so one must look far and wide for all the options that would justify hes choice and because we are Pies supporters any reason that contradicts our club interest will be pounced apon no matter how rightfull it may be in Thomas's boots. Like a lot of people have said when he quits the game some will remember him as a premiership player but the fact that he went to Scum at his peak will not go down well with the faithfull ..... Peter Moore is a great example of this. An absolute champion player but half the collingwood player say Len Thommo was. Supporters in General look over the financial implications related to the game but regard loyalty and playing for the jumper or the team as the highest level a player can reach! It may be arguable but it's the way it is.

RudeBoy wrote:Is Daisy a girlie name?....just asking.

Shhhh that bit of info about his private life is a secret.

2 things come to mind.

1. Peter Moore has been getting great plaudits on this board in connection with the discussion of his son so I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment.

2. I wonder if the view on Daisy will change if his ankle really is stuffed and he only plays a limited role for Carlton (ala Micky McGuane). I for one, love Micky and the fact that he went to Carlton means nothing to me. I think its the new way of the world. think gary ablett, think Lance franklin. In the US, a player is remembered most dearly by the team whose contribution he gave the most. so if daisy is a triple premiership player at Carlton, we will always hate him (because he will be remembered as a Carlton player and if he does jack shit, we'll remember him as a pies player.