Personal behaviour vs employment

thesoretoothsayer · Post by **thesoretoothsayer** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:28 am

For the folks in this thread who think that Falou is a bigot and got what he deserved, what are your thoughts about Emirates being our clubs major sponsor?
After all, Emirates is owned by the govt. of Dubai which actively persecutes homosexuals.

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:47 am

K wrote:'... Law Council of Australia president Arthur Moses, SC said the company made the right move.

"Given the legal uncertainties surrounding the use of crowdfunding to raise money to support litigation, it is my view that GoFundMe took the appropriate action in cancelling Israel Folau’s fundraising campaign," Moses said.

"GoFundMe is entitled to rely on its terms and conditions in order to terminate the fundraising campaign. It is the appropriate course of action.

"The issue of crowdfunding and its application to litigation opens up a range of complex issues that the legal profession and courts must now grapple with in order to protect the public and the integrity of the administration of justice.

"The legal profession will need to consider closely establishing ethical rules and guidance for practitioners who are conducting crowdfunded litigation."'

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rugby-u ... 520ur.html

Can't have the proles fighting or winning against old money and big corporations can we? What a wanker.

Post by **David** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:59 am

That was my thought too, Wokko. The relationship between money and justice is a huge problem, but surely that has more to do with the fact that justice is often too expensive, not that some are able to find alternative funding methods for their cases. It's not like Rugby Australia will be short of cash for this legal battle.

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:29 pm

I read somewhere it could send them broke, it was why they were throwing money at Folau to settle.

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:54 pm

So on the back of GoFundMe playing moral arbiter, the Australian Christian Lobby has set up a private website to donate to Izzy and it's currently sitting at $800,000 after half a day and rising.

https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy

Lefty idiots again forget the Streisand effect and keep loudly bleating.

taff wa · Post by **taff wa** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:10 pm

So we have a multi millionaire getting donations to fund his legal battle yet there are others who are struggling. https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2019/06 ... ael-folau/

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:21 pm

Then donate your money to those you think deserve it. Why is personal choice and freedom so hard for people to understand?

thesoretoothsayer · Post by **thesoretoothsayer** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 pm

I can't wait for Maria Falou to run out onto a netball court and get booed.
Because we all now know that the only reason you boo a person of colour is racism.

Morrigu · Post by **Morrigu** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Post by **David** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:44 pm

Post by **David** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:49 pm

Morrigu wrote:You are missing the point - it doesn't matter what you believe the fact is a significant number of professions including Rugby Australia have Codes of Conduct that include what an employee does or says particularly on social media at work and outside of work. I belong to a very strong union and we still have a pretty stringent Professional Code of Conduct. If you sign the employment contract then you are agreeing to abide with the terms of your employment which includes adherence to the relevant Code of Conduct.

He signed it, ignored it and was then found guilty of a high level breach and was sanctioned - end of!

The argument about whether Codes of Conduct should allow what an employee does outside work to be sanctionable is an argument definitely worth having but it doesn't change the fact that he breached what is the current Code of Conduct for his profession.

It is exactly the same as the rules for posting here: "posts that break the rules will be edited or deleted, and posters who do so may be warned or sanctioned". We know the rules as did he - a poster who ignores them is sanctioned - he ignored the rules and was sanctioned!

Well, this is precisely what he'll be disputing in court, and, as has been noted, it seems quite possible that he will win. It's been suggested that Rugby Australia did not, in fact, include wording in his code of conduct specifically prohibiting what he did. In that case, it's not "end of" at all.

Morrigu · Post by **Morrigu** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:15 pm

^ As is his right.

The RA Code of Conduct covers all players, officials, etc ( he doesn't get his own personal one) and it is pretty clear with regard to core values and the expectations of all it covers - it doesn't need to specifically state you are prohibited from posting say homophobic or islamphobic or antisemetic comments which is why he was found guilty of a high level breach of the Code by a panel that included a QC and SC.

All comments from qualified people I have heard is that it is unlikely he will win at Fair Work - we will see I suppose!

Personally I'm hoping he doesn't win!

Post by **stui magpie** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:31 pm

David wrote:If we work in a job, we abide by a code of conduct. That doesn't mean that what's in those codes of conduct doesn't matter, or shouldn't themselves be subject to the laws of the land. Indeed, they very much should be, and the fact that workplaces sometimes come up with bad codes of conduct, or place unfair, unreasonable or unhealthy expectations on workers is why the union movement exists.

You really need to do some reading on the history of Industrial relations in Australia and enhance your understanding of employment law.

A code of conduct is essentially an employer policy. It cannot over rule law or registered Industrial instruments so it cannot contain anything counter to law or industrial instruments (such as Enterprise Agreements).

Unless a code of conduct (or other policy such as a Social media policy) contains clauses that are illegal or conflict with the industrial instrument to the detriment of the employee, a union is powerless to do anything about it. All they can do is defend each and any instance of dismissal that they're called on to do by a member (they'll only support you if you're a financial member and they're an increasingly dwindling species) or lobby for changes to laws.

They can't take industrial action against an employer or force them to change policy they don't like

Similarly, what are "unreasonable or unhealthy expectations"is determined by reference to law, industrial instruments and FWA precedents, not personal opinion.

If these things are why unions exist today, they have no role.

On a side note, I have no issues with the Christian lobby now looking to raise funds for Folau. They are the ones with skin in the game and should be supporting him (although not all are which is interesting and refreshing) rather than a site like Gofundme which, at least to my mind, is for people dealing with difficult and/or tragic situations that they can't afford to pay for. he can afford to fund his own legal argument, he just prefers not to dip into his own pockets to do it.

K · Post by K » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:24 pm

Post by **Jezza** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:32 pm

thesoretoothsayer wrote:I can't wait for Maria Falou to run out onto a netball court and get booed.
Because we all now know that the only reason you boo a person of colour is racism.

A wife supports her husband. Who would have thought?

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Personal behaviour vs employment