Our veteran quandary

[Mr Miyagi]

Our problem is not with our veterans. Our problem is we do not have enough young players demonstrating enough talent to replace our veterans/

Compare where our veterans were age 18-21, to our current crop of early 20s. Apart from the Daicos bros, no one comes close. McCrae, Harrison, Begg, Steen, and maybe Allen are miles away from the players Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Elliott, Crisp were same age.
And he wouldn’t have been playing much this year anyway, but Taylor Adams left a hole we haven’t filled.

[Gerry Cooper]

^

True but trundling around in the reserves week after week is hardly going to build the motivation to take the next steps the club believes they can make, particularly if they see no chance of a change any time soon. One game in the seniors do more for their development than ten reserves games. Malthouse used to like testing young players in big games as a test of their mettle and skills but our current selection panel is more conservative than that. I would like to see our younger players continue to be given chances at senior level, despite them looking ordinary in the reserves. Its probably unfair to compare them to Pendlebury and Sidey as both were high draft picks and exceptional players from the beginning. Of course maybe those players' example is a reason to play them more often in order to really work on their development at senior level. Would Sidebottom or Crisp be who they are if they had to trundle around in the reserves week after week?

[K]

...Really Howes future will depend a lot on how or if Murphy gets back firstly and how he goes in the games he plays ...

Howe has a 16-game trigger clause in his contract. That doesn't sound like the hardest target...
He's already played 4, so 12 more to go.

[qldmagpie67]

With the June/July deadline for contract decisions for veterans fast approaching I think this is the shot across the bow as a warning to all veterans

Did the AFL bring in the proposed 'return of the veterans list' post the survey last year?

Cox & Mihocek are likely to have had some confronting discussions regarding their contribution ytd.

Laurie honestly other than Pendles all our veterans have been underwhelming inconsistent across the season
I don’t think any of them if there being completely honest would say there form has been at the level required
I made a comment in the off season about want and desire
I asked the question would the veterans have that some want and desire or did last years campaign drain there tanks
Right now it looks like a few are running on fumes
Maybe there tanks can refill enough to keep going this season but I think the presidents comments tells a story we are moving on from a few come seasons end and hitting the trade market heavily
Which veterans go likely has not been totally decided yet but there would be a few on the list
I said a couple weeks ago Wright wanted to move on from 2 at the end of last season but the coaching snd assistants didn’t believe it would sit well with the group so Wright relented but he made it very clear the list would be making changes come end of 2024 if we didn’t then we wouldn’t be competing for flags

[K]

^

Lad Pendles will decide his own future
He’s the only one who will get a say from our veterans ranks
I doubt we would allow Pendles Sidey and Howe to all walk in one off season (unless they had injuries or they voluntarily retired)
Wright has planned for a couple seasons the exit strategy of the veterans
There will be respect shown of course as there should be but there will be conversations basically saying either retire or you won’t be offered a deal here
...

Not according to McFly. (Dunno if McFly and Wright will then butt heads...)

J. Ralph (Hun):
'...McRae says the future of Scott Pendlebury and Steele Sidebottom is in their hands, as he defended his handling of Taylor Adams's exit.
... McRae has been criticised by both Adams and Jack Ginnivan for the nature of their departures...
Sidebottom wants to play on and Pendlebury ... will surely continue in 2025 given his form.
...
"It's their decision. That's how I see it in the short term, but when it is I don't know."
...
Adams said he was hurt that he did not hear from McRae after his decision to leave, but McRae saw his vice-captain's departure differently.
...
"My conversation with 'Tay' was really clear: if he hadn't done his hamstring he would have been a premiership player."'

[qldmagpie67]

K

My mail is very strong that’s not the case.
Other than Pendles all other veterans future is in the hands if Wright
I understand the coach saying that because I think in context he’s not lying he saying it’s there choice if they want to play on but that could well mean elsewhere doesn’t mean at Collingwood
Wright wanted to exit 1 or 2 veterans end of 2023 but for the sake of team harmony (after coaches pleaded a case of disharmony) he made it clear our aging list would change dramatically at end of 2024.
He has planned a staggered exit for past couple years.
We topped up the list in 2022 to give the veterans a tilt at a flag which we won but it wasn’t a long term scheme
The club already stated publicly we will be heavily into free agent market
That means we need cap space and list spots
Dropping fringe players doesn’t gain cap space it comes from exiting veterans on decent coin.
Now whether Howe hits his trigger or not doesn’t mean he will play on either. Right now he’s going ok but his body isn’t getting any younger
Sideys form has been sliding the past 18 months/2 years but the past few weeks it’s dropped off even more. He might be mentally capable but doesn’t mean he’s physically capable. Yes he brings other things on the field and I proved his and Pendles on field leadership and coaching of younger players particularly last season.

The exit of Adam’s was a blessing for the club in many ways it took an aging body who had become injury prone off our list.
Wright isn’t emotionally attached to players hence why he’s always in demand from clubs. He makes decisions based on best long term value for club and list.
Right now if we were to exit 2 veterans it would be Cox and either Sidey or Mitchell IMO
Let’s see how the year pans out the decision mightn’t need to be made by the club a couple players might call there own time once winter really hits or a injury occurs

[BazBoy]

[qldmagpie67]

There’s a zoom meeting with Wright, Bolton, Kelly, McRae, Leppa and Hine 3 days after Queens birthday game to discuss veterans season thus far.
So where are our veterans at right now

Checkers Mitchell WHE Elliot Cox and Pendles are all out injured at the moment but how have they been going prior to injury.

Pendles - locked in for 2025. 1 year deal sitting on the table waiting for his signature when he’s sure he wants to go on.

Cox - Think the drafting of young ruckman Wednesday night stamps Cox’s papers now. We might look for a 2nd ruck/forward cheap somewhere but he hasn’t shown anywhere near enough to likely go on.

Checkers- likely to go on. He’s still presenting well and getting to contests. Looks likely most weeks to kick multiple goals.

Elliott - was finding some form before going out injured. Still showing enough to warrant selection each week. Will go on

WHE - has been in some decent form prior to injury. Ability to play different roles well makes him valuable. Strong overhead and decent in front of goal. No like for like replacement waiting in the wings. Will go around again.

Sidey - been moved to HBF without much success after a lean patch for a few weeks prior. Isn’t at home down back but hasn’t been doing enough on the wing to demand his spot each week either. His onfield leadership is still valuable and he still works as hard as his body allows each week. Would be 50/50 at this stage to be offered new deal with a few youngsters showing promise with the chance they’ve been given

Mitchell - hard to judge. Been injured or managed a couple times this year. The evolution of Nick D and his partnership with Crisp and the return of JDG makes his place insecure. We have seen a few youngsters come in (not McRae) and be able to do a job. Richard’s looks a likely type who can pinch hit in the middle or forward sending McCreery or Elliott into the middle. 50/50 at best to go on again unless he produces a stellar last third of the season.

[inxs88]

^ Good analysis QLDmagpie67. You obviously have some solid intel or euphemistically there is a moll in the ranks!!

That aside, some of the above players have 2025 contracts and as such are going to be unlikely removed, namely:

* Cox
* Mitchell

The big ticket items in terms of those let go at the end of the year are:

* Steele: father time has come. We are a better side in 2025 with Richards, Harrison and Allan getting game time ahead of him.

* Contracted but superfluous players: Johnson and F Macrae need to be let go with not much coming back our way other than list spots freed up.

* Not up to it: Bytel, Kreuger, Begg, Steene are all injury prone or incapable.

* Murphy: retired which may free up cash if salary cap concussion rules are indeed brought in to mitigate.

* Close watch shall be on Markov given he is uncontracted and doesn't quite do enough.

We definitely should be looking at these players over the free agency period:

* Blake Hardwick
* Josh Battle
* W Hayward
* Bailey Banfield
* Harry Perryman
* Isaac Cumming
* A Tomlinson

[stui magpie]

There’s a zoom meeting with Wright, Bolton, Kelly, McRae, Leppa and Hine 3 days after Queens birthday game to discuss veterans season thus far..

Wright to dial in from Europe?

I disagree on Cox, think he will get 1 more year but you left out Howe who I think is just about done. His body is held together with sticky tape and happy thoughts.

[Pies4shaw]

Steele: father time has come. We are a better side in 2025 with Richards, Harrison and Allan getting game time ahead of him.

Allan can't, it seems, get into the Collingwood best 40, at the moment.
Richards is injured.
Harrison averages 3 kicks a game.

I have high hopes for these players but none of them would be picked ahead of Sidebottom. Maybe next year or the year after - but, as I have said repeatedly, the problem isn't our veterans: the problem is that the players coming up aren't, by and large, doing enough to warrant selection. It is a very serious problem that Collingwood is hurt so badly by the absences of Pendlebury, Mihocek, Elliott, WHE, Howe (when he was out) and De Goey. Really you'd like to think a kid or two would be able to come up and do their job - but mostly, we have to hide the kids or watch them play "cameos" and "show glimpses". Meanwhile, Sidebottom adapted his game again last night to plug a hole. He isn't the epoch-defining Sidebottom of 2017 and 2018 but he did have the second-most metres gained of any Collingwood player (Nick Daicos had more - he did play a game for the ages).

[think positive]

^

I don’t get the criticism of sidey, and I really hope he goes at least another year
Watch the kids with him guys, him and Mitchell, that’s who the young guns flock to

[qldmagpie67]

I disagree on Cox, think he will get 1 more year but you left out Howe who I think is just about done. His body is held together with sticky tape and happy thoughts.

Sorry stui missed Howe but your comments see spot on. He’s not the same player he was before his arm injury.

Yes my understanding this isn’t the first call they’ve had but it’s the first one where they’ll access the performances of the veterans and start looking at who does and who doesn’t get a offer for 2025.
The club has high hopes for Steene and Begg. We might look at a cheap second ruck to cover until they are ready
My understanding is there’s concern in the club Cox’s body is fragile and his impact is diminishing rapidly for a man of his size
Time will tell. There’s been no firm decisions made either way as I understand it but Wright and the president both said we will be very active in the trade market in the next couple years. This means we need cap space and list spots

[qldmagpie67]

^

Your partially right mate
None are ready yet but come seasons end and another preseason will they be ?
Richards and Harrison look most likely to be in or around best 22 in coming years. We have options for wingers and our style requires speed which is a main reason Sidey was moved to HBF. As I said my understanding there’s no firm decisions made in any veterans yet but there will be in the next 6/8 weeks
Nicks game last night was unbelievable but we stroll couldn’t get 4 points which is frustrating. The absence of Pendles was very noticeable last night as it allowed Bont to sit on Nick and curtail his output in the second half. I was surprised we didn’t move Lipinski into the middle more often with his body size to shadow Bont and break the tag on Nick.

[The Black and White Lion]

Geez how do we get virtual seats for the zoom call! I'm guessing with a premium pay per view ticket for pies members only, the Pies would pack out 10,000 sales easily. I know it won't happen but just imagine your mind blowing and what you'd hear.

Cox should be out of our best 23 with a fully fit team by the end of this year. He will be insurance only next year tapping to Mitchell in the VFL.

Mitchell is going to be insurance only given the emergence of Naicos and Sullivan getting games. Will an ageing Mitchell help us to get better in 2025, probably not in the AFL? Wonder if he is prepared to play half the season in the VFL? Could he seek one more year somewhere else with a low trade?

Sidey I think it's time. Think we missed a trick not playing him forward during our injury run but I think his time is up and should retire at the end of 2024.

Howe is an interesting one. I don't think he has a deal for 2025. If we are going after a FA like Battle I think Howe is done and into retirement. He must know that already given we were into Doedee long before Murphy's concussion in the GF.

So I think Howe and Sidey to retire 2024. Cox and Mitchell to retire 2025. Checkers to go 1 more and retire in 2025. WHE 2 more and retire 2026.

As for Pendles, that's pretty much up to him but I reckon he will keep doing one more if he wants the AFL games record. He is one serious injury away from a holiday and coaching though and I hope he gets a bunch of experience elsewhere before coaching the Pies, but that will be up to him too.