Coronavirus 3 - Al Pacino's turn to mumble

[doriswilgus]

[think positive]

gees Dorus, scary. putting money before lives, i guess thats why they still cant cure cancer etc, no money in cures

[eddiesmith]

Lol, so US got lucky that the one they could produce locally was fine, ignoring the fact they also had J&J which developed the same problems as AZ, but Australia is wrong for going with local manufacturing of a vaccine over one which had far more rigorous storage requirements that couldn't be used everywhere anyway!

The fact thats now changed doesn't change the government made the call they could on the information available to them at the time.

At the end of the day they had 150-200 million doses of vaccines secured, one turned out to be a total dud, one has had issues and the other main one isn't ready yet. It was all a guessing game.

I did laugh at James Merlino on the attack yesterday complaining the Federal Government had over 12 months to get it right, yeah right, 12 months ago a vaccine was not much more than a pipedream!!!

I'm glad that so many hindsight heroes would have been able to foresee problems with AZ and that Pfizer was going to be the best option when they were all still in development...

[stui magpie]

News flash - left wing journalist and self styled health policy expert criticises a Liberal Government.

Of course focus in on the cost.

If you go back in time to when the decision was made on vaccines, before the clot issue, line up the choices and see which way you'd go.

1. All provide similar efficacy, ie they all work
2. mRNA Vaccines (Pfizer) are new technology that have never been used in humans prior to now, outside some limited testing
3. AstraZeneca is based on existing proven well used technology, same as the Flu Shot.
4. Pfizer has stringent storage conditions requiring specialised cold storage creating a supply chain logistics problem, particularly for rural and regional Australia. AstraZeneca can be stored in a standard fridge
5. We have the capability and can be licensed to make AstraZeneca locally, removing reliance on needing to import it. We can't make Pfizer mRNA vaccines locally, we would be reliant on importing all our stocks and at the mercy of Europe.
6. Astrazeneca is cheaper.

With those facts to work with at the time, would anyone seriously make Pfizer the main vaccine?

Interesting that Goddard doesn't even the existence of the first 5 points but focuses only on the last.

[doriswilgus]

It doesn’t take much foresight to see that you shouldn’t be putting all your eggs in the one basket,especially when there were other more effective vaccines available.^

[eddiesmith]

News flash - left wing journalist and self styled health policy expert criticises a Liberal Government.

Of course focus in on the cost.

If you go back in time to when the decision was made on vaccines, before the clot issue, line up the choices and see which way you'd go.

1. All provide similar efficacy, ie they all work
2. mRNA Vaccines (Pfizer) are new technology that have never been used in humans prior to now, outside some limited testing
3. AstraZeneca is based on existing proven well used technology, same as the Flu Shot.
4. Pfizer has stringent storage conditions requiring specialised cold storage creating a supply chain logistics problem, particularly for rural and regional Australia. AstraZeneca can be stored in a standard fridge
5. We have the capability and can be licensed to make AstraZeneca locally, removing reliance on needing to import it. We can't make Pfizer mRNA vaccines locally, we would be reliant on importing all our stocks and at the mercy of Europe.
6. Astrazeneca is cheaper.

With those facts to work with at the time, would anyone seriously make Pfizer the main vaccine?

Interesting that Goddard doesn't even the existence of the first 5 points but focuses only on the last.

Of course not, but don't forget that when AZ's problems first started the cry was why don't we have J&J which was only one shot, then it developed the same problems and silence...

It doesn’t take much foresight to see that you shouldn’t be putting all your eggs in the one basket,especially when there were other more effective vaccines available.^

Like having 3-4 different options with over 150 million doses for 25 million people? Oh, that's what they did...

Let's face it, these contracts and offers were being done when none of them had any proof of effectiveness

[doriswilgus]

News flash - left wing journalist and self styled health policy expert criticises a Liberal Government.

Of course focus in on the cost.

If you go back in time to when the decision was made on vaccines, before the clot issue, line up the choices and see which way you'd go.

1. All provide similar efficacy, ie they all work
2. mRNA Vaccines (Pfizer) are new technology that have never been used in humans prior to now, outside some limited testing
3. AstraZeneca is based on existing proven well used technology, same as the Flu Shot.
4. Pfizer has stringent storage conditions requiring specialised cold storage creating a supply chain logistics problem, particularly for rural and regional Australia. AstraZeneca can be stored in a standard fridge
5. We have the capability and can be licensed to make AstraZeneca locally, removing reliance on needing to import it. We can't make Pfizer mRNA vaccines locally, we would be reliant on importing all our stocks and at the mercy of Europe.
6. Astrazeneca is cheaper.

With those facts to work with at the time, would anyone seriously make Pfizer the main vaccine?

Interesting that Goddard doesn't even the existence of the first 5 points but focuses only on the last.

And how do you know this man is left wing journalist or a self styled health expert?Do you know him personally?The man has been writing articles in the paper for years on health,criticising both sides of Parliament.
You do realise that he wrote this article in the Hobart Mercury,a Murdoch paper.Are they in the practice of letting left wing commentators write columns now?It’s so easy to dismiss someone’s else’s opinion if it doesn’t conform to your own political bias.

[doriswilgus]

News flash - left wing journalist and self styled health policy expert criticises a Liberal Government.

Of course focus in on the cost.

If you go back in time to when the decision was made on vaccines, before the clot issue, line up the choices and see which way you'd go.

1. All provide similar efficacy, ie they all work
2. mRNA Vaccines (Pfizer) are new technology that have never been used in humans prior to now, outside some limited testing
3. AstraZeneca is based on existing proven well used technology, same as the Flu Shot.
4. Pfizer has stringent storage conditions requiring specialised cold storage creating a supply chain logistics problem, particularly for rural and regional Australia. AstraZeneca can be stored in a standard fridge
5. We have the capability and can be licensed to make AstraZeneca locally, removing reliance on needing to import it. We can't make Pfizer mRNA vaccines locally, we would be reliant on importing all our stocks and at the mercy of Europe.
6. Astrazeneca is cheaper.

With those facts to work with at the time, would anyone seriously make Pfizer the main vaccine?

Interesting that Goddard doesn't even the existence of the first 5 points but focuses only on the last.

Of course not, but don't forget that when AZ's problems first started the cry was why don't we have J&J which was only one shot, then it developed the same problems and silence...

It doesn’t take much foresight to see that you shouldn’t be putting all your eggs in the one basket,especially when there were other more effective vaccines available.^

Like having 3-4 different options with over 150 million doses for 25 million people? Oh, that's what they did...

Let's face it, these contracts and offers were being done when none of them had any proof of effectiveness

Not true.The government only had two vaccines ordered,AstraZeneca and a much smaller number of Pfizer vaccines.Now AstraZeneca is not recommended for 83% of the population.Not good forward plannning.

[Pies4shaw]

^ It should be possible to accept both that they made what has turned out to have been a mistake but also that they did so on the best available advice at the time.

[doriswilgus]

That’s probably true.But to pretend that everything is fine and dandy with the rollout and no questions should be asked,is doing the public a great disservice in my opinion^

[stui magpie]

And how do you know this man is left wing journalist or a self styled health expert?

Because I researched his background before responding.

It’s so easy to dismiss someone’s else’s opinion if it doesn’t conform to your own political bias.

Exactly, you are very good at it.

It doesn’t take much foresight to see that you shouldn’t be putting all your eggs in the one basket,especially when there were other more effective vaccines available.^

Placing orders on 2 different vaccines with options on a 3rd, isn't putting all your eggs in one basket.

Try to keep in mind that Morrison didn't personally pull a name out of a hat, there was a process involving experts based on the best information available at the time. We even made our vaccines go through the full TGA approval process.

[think positive]

^ It should be possible to accept both that they made what has turned out to have been a mistake but also that they did so on the best available advice at the time.

thats a fair view of it

[doriswilgus]

And how do you know this man is left wing journalist or a self styled health expert?

Because I researched his background before responding.

It’s so easy to dismiss someone’s else’s opinion if it doesn’t conform to your own political bias.

Exactly, you are very good at it.

It doesn’t take much foresight to see that you shouldn’t be putting all your eggs in the one basket,especially when there were other more effective vaccines available.^

Placing orders on 2 different vaccines with options on a 3rd, isn't putting all your eggs in one basket.

Try to keep in mind that Morrison didn't personally pull a name out of a hat, there was a process involving experts based on the best information available at the time. We even made our vaccines go through the full TGA approval process.

Look I’m not going to keep this going all night but I should say a couple of things in response to this.

On Martyn Goddard you formed your opinion of him by doing some research on him,not by what you know of him?On some right wing site,I assume,which conforms your own bias,no doubt.

As for dismissing someone’s opinion if it doesn’t conform to your own political bias,yes you could accuse me of that.But I’ m just a mere amateur in that regard compared to you.You are the expert on doing that.

As for putting all the eggs in the AstraZeneca basket,a lot of people have been saying that for a long time now,not just Martyn Goddard.

I said months ago that the government shouldn’t have been so reliant and AstraZeneica,and that they should have ordered more vaccines from other sources like Pfizer and Moderna.Well,guess what,that’s exactly what the government did.They ordered tens of millions more doses of Pfizer and signed a contract with Moderna to provide tens of millions of doses of that vaccine.

So in essence,the government basically admitted that they made a mistake on their vaccine rollout and changed course.Six months too late,but better late than never.It’s interesting that the government has basically given up on defending its vaccine rollout by changing course,yet you still loyally defend everything they’ve done.But of course,you’re not partisan,are you?

[Dave The Man]

News flash - left wing journalist and self styled health policy expert criticises a Liberal Government.

Of course focus in on the cost.

If you go back in time to when the decision was made on vaccines, before the clot issue, line up the choices and see which way you'd go.

1. All provide similar efficacy, ie they all work
2. mRNA Vaccines (Pfizer) are new technology that have never been used in humans prior to now, outside some limited testing
3. AstraZeneca is based on existing proven well used technology, same as the Flu Shot.
4. Pfizer has stringent storage conditions requiring specialised cold storage creating a supply chain logistics problem, particularly for rural and regional Australia. AstraZeneca can be stored in a standard fridge
5. We have the capability and can be licensed to make AstraZeneca locally, removing reliance on needing to import it. We can't make Pfizer mRNA vaccines locally, we would be reliant on importing all our stocks and at the mercy of Europe.
6. Astrazeneca is cheaper.

With those facts to work with at the time, would anyone seriously make Pfizer the main vaccine?

Interesting that Goddard doesn't even the existence of the first 5 points but focuses only on the last.

Some People in Goverment has Shares in the AsrtaZencia Company so they wanted there Shares to go up

[Dave The Man]

Looks like Sydney/NSW going into Lockdown

https://twitter.com/mjrowland68/status/ ... 1387965445