Gun laws in USA??

thesoretoothsayer · Post by **thesoretoothsayer** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:51 pm

That Trump and his admin / cronies have created the conditons necessary for these type of incidents...is not even a debating point.

Saying that something is true does not make it true. If it's so obvious, then you'll be able to clearly show me what words/actions from Trump have led to an anti-semitic hate crime.

To say that his daughter has coverted to Judaism...is not only thick but serves as a deflection of his adminstrations (such that it is) role in creating a hostile environment for Jews.

I have given examples of why I don't think Trump would want to create the environment for anti-semitic hate crimes. Please give examples of how he's responsible for anti-semitic hate crimes.

Does one really think that it is accidental that there have never been more sustained & increasing acts of anti-semitic violence in the US since Trump was on the scene?

They could be totally unrelated. It could be due to many factors like the increasing influence of social media echo chambers and the polarisation of legacy media as it enters it's death spiral. You need to show the link.

Trumps very late comments on Charlotteville were equivocal and provided encouragement to neo-nazi and other extremist rabble simply because he equivocated.

Yes, Trumps initial comments on Charlotteville were lamentable.
This does not make him responsible for the murder of 11 people in a synagogue.

The other main issue has been the attacks on George Soros

Yes, "George Soros", is for many people a codeword for the "juice".
However, Trump may just not like Soros for his political activism. Just like many on the left don't like the Koch brothers. Again, asserting something doesn't make it true. Give me evidence that when Trump says "Soros" he means "evil juice".

MJ23 · Post by **MJ23** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:31 pm

MJ23 · Post by **MJ23** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:40 pm

thesoretoothsayer wrote:
That Trump and his admin / cronies have created the conditons necessary for these type of incidents...is not even a debating point.
Saying that something is true does not make it true. If it's so obvious, then you'll be able to clearly show me what words/actions from Trump have led to an anti-semitic hate crime.

To say that his daughter has coverted to Judaism...is not only thick but serves as a deflection of his adminstrations (such that it is) role in creating a hostile environment for Jews.
I have given examples of why I don't think Trump would want to create the environment for anti-semitic hate crimes. Please give examples of how he's responsible for anti-semitic hate crimes.

Does one really think that it is accidental that there have never been more sustained & increasing acts of anti-semitic violence in the US since Trump was on the scene?
They could be totally unrelated. It could be due to many factors like the increasing influence of social media echo chambers and the polarisation of legacy media as it enters it's death spiral. You need to show the link.

Trumps very late comments on Charlotteville were equivocal and provided encouragement to neo-nazi and other extremist rabble simply because he equivocated.
Yes, Trumps initial comments on Charlotteville were lamentable.
This does not make him responsible for the murder of 11 people in a synagogue.

The other main issue has been the attacks on George Soros
Yes, "George Soros", is for many people a codeword for the "juice".
However, Trump may just not like Soros for his political activism. Just like many on the left don't like the Koch brothers. Again, asserting something doesn't make it true. Give me evidence that when Trump says "Soros" he means "evil juice".

far too rational.
To add, Id argue that if in fact Trump was a driving influence for this nutcase, it would be because Trump is a huge supporter of Israel, has actively supported them in speeches and actions including the US recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. This was something no other President would do after congress had voted in favour of doing so. Netanyahu called Trump a Great friend of Israel.
To ask why attacks in the US against Israel have increased with Trump presidency ( Not sure they have but ok) Id suggest its because of Trumps support indicating responsibility on the other side of the aisle.

thesoretoothsayer · Post by **thesoretoothsayer** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:57 pm

watt price tully · Post by **watt price tully** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:08 pm

thesoretoothsayer wrote:
That Trump and his admin / cronies have created the conditons necessary for these type of incidents...is not even a debating point.
Saying that something is true does not make it true. If it's so obvious, then you'll be able to clearly show me what words/actions from Trump have led to an anti-semitic hate crime.

To say that his daughter has coverted to Judaism...is not only thick but serves as a deflection of his adminstrations (such that it is) role in creating a hostile environment for Jews.
I have given examples of why I don't think Trump would want to create the environment for anti-semitic hate crimes. Please give examples of how he's responsible for anti-semitic hate crimes.

Does one really think that it is accidental that there have never been more sustained & increasing acts of anti-semitic violence in the US since Trump was on the scene?
They could be totally unrelated. It could be due to many factors like the increasing influence of social media echo chambers and the polarisation of legacy media as it enters it's death spiral. You need to show the link.

Trumps very late comments on Charlotteville were equivocal and provided encouragement to neo-nazi and other extremist rabble simply because he equivocated.
Yes, Trumps initial comments on Charlotteville were lamentable.
This does not make him responsible for the murder of 11 people in a synagogue.

The other main issue has been the attacks on George Soros
Yes, "George Soros", is for many people a codeword for the "juice".
However, Trump may just not like Soros for his political activism. Just like many on the left don't like the Koch brothers. Again, asserting something doesn't make it true. Give me evidence that when Trump says "Soros" he means "evil juice".

I said Trump and his administration & cronies have created the environment for anti-semitic incienence & violent crimes in the US not the dorect cause yet you keep asking how how Trump is responsible. Now if you can't distinguish between the two or can't see what's in front of you then no argument will satsify such ignorance or blindness.

As far as Soros is concerned you need to read more widely. This is pretty basic stuff SS. Soros is a case par excellence of classical use anti-semitic tropes not limited to Trump as noted above.

This isn't difficult. However I'm not going to waste my time because you've been too lazy to notice.

Post by **David** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:11 pm

watt price tully · Post by **watt price tully** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:26 pm

MJ23 · Post by **MJ23** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:59 pm

MJ23 · Post by **MJ23** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:21 pm

Post by **David** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:40 pm

thesoretoothsayer · Post by **thesoretoothsayer** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:51 pm

It's interesting to read Serwer's condemnation of Trump next to his oh so gentle piece on Tamika Mallory's refusal to condemn Farrakhan.
It's almost as if he treats people differently depending on what side of the political divide they are on. But, of course, an impartial journalist would never do that.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... am/555332/

Post by **stui magpie** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:55 pm

I'm enjoying this thread, good robust debate.

FWIW I don't think Trump has created any culture deliberately. What he has done is tap into a pre existing middle America who felt disenfranchised and ignored by the 2 opposing coastal meccas (NY and So Cal) who run the progressive agenda and, to a degree, enabled them to speak up.

He didn't create their views.

At the same time, the closest thing the USA has to left wingers, haven't left therapy since he was elected and attack him without thought or measure at every turn, both winding up their own supporters and pissing off their opponents.

Basically, the US is more polarised than pretty much any time since the civil war

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:47 am

The shooter was a Nazi (A real one, not just a centre-right Conservative) who hated Trump for not being a Nazi.

Somehow Trump's fault. Or the Republicans fault (even though this does nothing but hurt them in the Midterms).

Yet when the Bernie supporting Democrat shot up the Republican baseball game nobody blamed Bernie or the Democrats (well no media or lefty posters on social media).

As for Soros, I guess Bibi is an anti-Semite too? He slammed Soros. People don't hate Soros for being a Jew, they hate him for being a Nation destroying %$^%$.

Post by **David** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:57 am

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:02 am

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Gun laws in USA??