Post-match: Pies down to Carlton

[thompsoc]

I spent yesterday not watching the game as such, but I was watching the way both sides structured the playing group.
There was numerous examples of a Bux game plan that was a disaster.
Some were just bizarre.
In the second quarter at every centre bounce the Hobbit went to the back of the centre square.
What was he doing? Was he a sweeper, was he going to run forward to take on the ball carrier when Carlton won the ball?
Blair a Sweeper or a fast transition player?
It truly was weird and then come the third quarter it stopped!!
Of course the loolipop brigade moan about the negativity about the coach.
But please tell us the winning game plan?
All you do is shoot the messenger.
It was so so obvious how Bolt had in 6 months produced a structure that will take Carlton forward.
Carlton is still a crap team, their skill level yesterday was woeful but the game plan was so far ahead of us that it was scary to see.
Bux is a complete and utter muppet.
He has tickets on himself and by his own admission has supreme confidence in his own ability.
He would make a great Politician.
All hat and no cattle!

[Culprit]

Everyone needs to calm down. What transpires is completely out of our hands and we should all expect the worst and hope for the best. Season 2016 is now over. We will get more results like yesterday as we try kids and focus on next year.

[Magpietothemax]

The zone was leaking like a sieve in the preseason too. This is when they had a settled backline.

It is a perfect storm. There is no one in the backline that marshals the zone setup (think Nick Maxwell, Heath Shaw), there is few highly skilled players that can move the ball (Reid is the only one) from the HB line, the leading patterns up forward ensure players kick and hope to a 50/50 contest and there are no midfielders who will run into D50 and clog space.

It's unsustainable and the likes of Adelaide, WB & Giants will put on plus 130 points against this zone setup. Buckley won't survive these type of losses.

Question 1: Why aren't our midfielders being told to run back like hell and clog up space (that is, apply defensive pressure)?
Question 2: So is it that our structures (leading patterns) in midfield and in our F50 are ill conceived?
Question 3: Are the setups at stoppages and clearances likewise catastrophically bad?
Question 4: Would it be possible to revert to our previous game style (more man on man and much higher contested ball stats) and perform better than we are now?

[Raw Hammer]

Did anyone notice the positioning of our stoppages? Deplorable. Twice Gibbs was free boundary/goal side to saunter in and kick two goals. Amazingly, loose Blues were allowed to sit boundary side unattended at pretty much every other boundary throw in...no leadership out there whatsoever. Oh, and when you sit at the top like I do, you see the mayhem of our disjointed defence with nowhere to hide. Seriously, there so many loose players wandering into dangerous spots time and time again, and I looked around to see NONE of our players waving their arms or yelling to grab the attention of other team mates to guard the player (or their space as it is now). It's a freakin' amateurish train wreck out there. No way in hell Maxwell or Shaw let that happen. This from a multi-million dollar professional sports club.

[thompsoc]

This is what the lollipop brigade fail to understand.
Our structures are truly terrible.
Forget about injuries and young players and whether we are physically capable.
The first and most important thing for a coach is to set the right structures.
Paul Roos first got the defence right and now after 3 or so years he has lifted that side from pathetic to probably average.
He has put in the structures to achieve that result.
Bux is a lemon full stop.
Can anyone on the lollipop side point out one thing good about the way we set up?

[Pies4shaw]

Did anyone notice the positioning of our stoppages? Deplorable. Twice Gibbs was free boundary/goal side to saunter in and kick two goals. Amazingly, loose Blues were allowed to sit boundary side unattended at pretty much every other boundary throw in...no leadership out there whatsoever. Oh, and when you sit at the top like I do, you see the mayhem of our disjointed defence with nowhere to hide. Seriously, there so many loose players wandering into dangerous spots time and time again, and I looked around to see NONE of our players waving their arms or yelling to grab the attention of other team mates to guard the player (or their space as it is now). It's a freakin' amateurish train wreck out there. No way in hell Maxwell or Shaw let that happen. This from a multi-million dollar professional sports club.

It was good enough for H on Stevie J in the 2011 Grand Final - worked well and produced goals that day, too.

[Jez07]

Did anyone notice the positioning of our stoppages? Deplorable. Twice Gibbs was free boundary/goal side to saunter in and kick two goals. Amazingly, loose Blues were allowed to sit boundary side unattended at pretty much every other boundary throw in...no leadership out there whatsoever. Oh, and when you sit at the top like I do, you see the mayhem of our disjointed defence with nowhere to hide. Seriously, there so many loose players wandering into dangerous spots time and time again, and I looked around to see NONE of our players waving their arms or yelling to grab the attention of other team mates to guard the player (or their space as it is now). It's a freakin' amateurish train wreck out there. No way in hell Maxwell or Shaw let that happen. This from a multi-million dollar professional sports club.

You see amatuer clubs with better setups at the stoppages. It's a disorganised rabble.

[Raw Hammer]

I just checked the AFL app...we lost EVERY statistic (except for ruck hit outs, funnily enough). Yeah, that's right, EVERY statistic to last season's wooden spooners. Embarrassing.

Well, on the bright side, I said pre game if Carlton (who are averaging 60-odd points a game this season) manage to crack the ton, the entire coaching staff should step down. 53 at the half, 86 at 3/4 time...99 at full time. Buckley and co live to fight another day!

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

this is a train wreak... plain and simple - its going to be yeeeeaaarrrrss for us to recover. I almost cant watch anymore...

[Piesnchess]

This is what the lollipop brigade fail to understand.
Our structures are truly terrible.
Forget about injuries and young players and whether we are physically capable.
The first and most important thing for a coach is to set the right structures.
Paul Roos first got the defence right and now after 3 or so years he has lifted that side from pathetic to probably average.
He has put in the structures to achieve that result.
Bux is a lemon full stop.
Can anyone on the lollipop side point out one thing good about the way we set up?

The decline this season in form, of our backs, has done us no favours, nat brown is down, Langdon has gone off the boil, frost is struggling, throw in guys like crisp, who is having ashocker, and we have far too many good players just way out of form. I don't think structures matter so much, If we had guys in form, but the confidence of our backs is way down, only reid really still shines, and Williams was a big loss too. Clearly both moore and cox are players of the future, up forward, cloke has lost all form too, and howe has not found his mojo yet. Varcoe is a vital link too our team, as is Elliott, but both out . If we could just get a settled side for once that might help, but our personnel changes are just too many.

[Neil Appleby]

Come on mods you can't be serious. I should apologise for saying that many people in the Game ON thread are drongos? That's the word that was snipped from my posting. Drongos! Really? That great Aussie insult is deemed too hot for Nick's? How about ratbag? Would that pass muster? Do we have a new team of young mods from the millennial generation who have never heard the word? Sorry mods but this is a clear case of over reach.

<Mod edit: How about focussing on arguing the merits of your case, instead of resorting to insults, fair dinkum Aussie or otherwise? And if you have an issue with moderation there are channels you can go through.>

And some of those people in the Game On thread do go running to mama when they are criticised. It's a fact. Happy to provide examples too.

<Mod edit: It's also a fact that the mods exercise their own discretion when they see something they don't like, without being called on.>

I can sort of understand people not liking being called whiny little bitches (and I meant men and women here so it's not sexist), but has Nick's become so sanitised and PC that one can't even sling off at the (searches for a Mod-approved word) not very bright people always calling for sackings?

<Mod edit: You can critique posts that you disagree with as much as you like, provided you do so respectfully. Go for the ball, not the other player.>

Come on Mods Team, these people, who are perfectly entitled to express their views, should be able to stand the heat if their comments are interpreted as being, unhinged and moronic. If they can't handle that, they should slink off to other places where they may feel more comfortable.

<Mod edit: There are ways of putting the heat on opinions "these people" post without resorting to insults. And yes, if they don't like their opinions being challenged, they are free to discontinue posting. Or use the freely available 'ignore' function. We'd prefer you both stay and debate respectfully, though. - bbmods>

[Pies4shaw]

Brilliant! The place is full of dribbling trolls and "drongo" gets the snip. Guess you might have to stick with the less-offensive "scum-sucking filter-feeders", then....

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

So back to the subject line 'Pies down to Carlton' any opinions?!? Anybody??

[John Wren]

Brilliant! The place is full of dribbling trolls and "drongo" gets the snip. Guess you might have to stick with the less-offensive "scum-sucking filter-feeders", then....

i would have thought "drongo" was being restrained.

[thompsoc]

Come on mods you can't be serious. I should apologise for saying that many people in the Game ON thread are drongos? That's the word that was snipped from my posting. Drongos! Really? That great Aussie insult is deemed too hot for Nick's? How about ratbag? Would that pass muster? Do we have a new team of young mods from the millennial generation who have never heard the word? Sorry mods but this is a clear case of over reach.

<Mod edit: How about focussing on arguing the merits of your case, instead of resorting to insults, fair dinkum Aussie or otherwise? And if you have an issue with moderation there are channels you can go through.>

And some of those people in the Game On thread do go running to mama when they are criticised. It's a fact. Happy to provide examples too.

<Mod edit: It's also a fact that the mods exercise their own discretion when they see something they don't like, without being called on.>

I can sort of understand people not liking being called whiny little bitches (and I meant men and women here so it's not sexist), but has Nick's become so sanitised and PC that one can't even sling off at the (searches for a Mod-approved word) not very bright people always calling for sackings?

<Mod edit: You can critique posts that you disagree with as much as you like, provided you do so respectfully. Go for the ball, not the other player.>

Come on Mods Team, these people, who are perfectly entitled to express their views, should be able to stand the heat if their comments are interpreted as being, unhinged and moronic. If they can't handle that, they should slink off to other places where they may feel more comfortable.

<Mod edit: There are ways of putting the heat on opinions "these people" post without resorting to insults. And yes, if they don't like their opinions being challenged, they are free to discontinue posting. Or use the freely available 'ignore' function. We'd prefer you both stay and debate respectfully, though. - bbmods>

I'm with you on this one Neil.
Drongo is one of the greatest words in the Australian lingo!
That poor old horse Drongo came last in about 25 races.
He is now part of Australian folklore!
What an honour to be called a drongo instead of loser.
Of course the word loser abounds on Nicks.
I once called a a poster a rabbit!!!
I think I got a yellow card for that.
So Neil we should join forces and promote the words Drongo and Rabbit on Nicks.
We can't have our culture go down the American drain.