Page 19 of 271
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:16 pm
by Big T
The team is bigger than the individual. Either way, this must be the message to all players. Otherwise we become Carlton.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:17 pm
by eddiesmith
Deja Vu wrote:eddiesmith wrote:
We already have 3 or so midfielders around the money he is asking for, its not unreasonable that he doesnt want to settle for less just because some reckon its destabilising. Besides, he hasnt signed a contract before the season is out yet but because Mick isnt here anymore, the supporters need a new target and the media need a story and what a perfect combo that is for outrageous reactions
We can only go by what is reported, but if Travis actually was only asking for what our other midfielders are getting, the deal would have been done, because no one is on more than $750K.
And if anyone was going to be on more than that, Swanny and Pendles would deserve that kind of money ahead of Travis anyway.
Could you imagine Swanny or Pendles holding out for a million large if every 2nd kick they had missed it's target? Because although Cloke is a contested marking monster, his kicking is woeful, and he is only doing half the job.
If he was a better kick he would be worth the money he's asking for.
As it stands, there may be better options. Has Kurt Tippet signed up yet?
Nice exaggeration there, he has had 154 kicks for the year, pretty sure alot more than 75 have hit the target especially as 33 have been goals and only kicked 18 behinds...
He would probably also be pretty close to leading the club for goal assists as he works hard and does everything needed. Sure we would all love it if he kicked as straight as Buddy does, oh wait, maybe not
The biggest problem with letting him go is you would need a ready made replacement from another club, don't see them available via free agency and we won't be getting them via trade, because there is no one in the club who could go close to offering the target Travis does now and no one in the club who could kick 60-70 goals a year
Sure some of our younger brigade might get there when they reach 24-25, but this side is in its premiership window now
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:18 pm
by MJ23
burnsy17 wrote:I read somewhere that Pert and Ed were meeting with his management today....
If he doesnt sign, they should turn the heat up.....
We've still got Sidey, Reid and a few others that we need to lock away.
Sidey in particular needs to be signed sooner rather than later.
Sidey has already signed
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:22 pm
by Beast
eddiesmith wrote:You have to remember there are some on here who have never liked him and always look for a chance to stick the knives in, its no wonder people would think of leaving given the supporters the club has
The other thing is, he is our leading goal kicker with more than double the amount of the next player (Someone else who most on here never wanted in the team) and 5 times as many goals as our other key forward, but yeah the team will be fine without him
Also for the stats people out there, this time last year he had kicked 2 more goals than he has this year, think he might be on track for another big year and it seems he hasnt lost any form at all
We already have 3 or so midfielders around the money he is asking for, its not unreasonable that he doesnt want to settle for less just because some reckon its destabilising. Besides, he hasnt signed a contract before the season is out yet but because Mick isnt here anymore, the supporters need a new target and the media need a story and what a perfect combo that is for outrageous reactions
Rubbish post, expected from you.
Even an out of form Dawes kicked a couple of goals against Freo when Cloke got subbed off and Dawes went to the goal square.
And this is the second time you're trying to pass on 3 of our mids being on the same wages that Cloke is demanding for a fact when in reality you have absolutely no idea if this is the case.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:23 pm
by RudeBoy
I've been saying for a while now that Carlton is after a Malthouse/Cloke package deal. I suspect Malthouse has made that a condition of him joining them. Travis aint going to Freo, but he can still live with mummy and daddy if he's at Carlton.
The fact that his management are even talking to Carlton says we should piss him off now. That is a disgrace. He was entitled to negotiate hard to get a good deal from Collingwood, but $750-800,000 pa is without doubt a very good deal. Of course he can get more in the open market, so if that's what he wants then piss him off. I'd rather have players willing to sacrifice a little dough in order to play with Collingwood.
Quite frankly this greedy bastard is threatening to sabotage our finals campaign. Drop him Bucks. Phuk him and phuk his old man.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:28 pm
by eddiesmith
Beast wrote:eddiesmith wrote:You have to remember there are some on here who have never liked him and always look for a chance to stick the knives in, its no wonder people would think of leaving given the supporters the club has
The other thing is, he is our leading goal kicker with more than double the amount of the next player (Someone else who most on here never wanted in the team) and 5 times as many goals as our other key forward, but yeah the team will be fine without him
Also for the stats people out there, this time last year he had kicked 2 more goals than he has this year, think he might be on track for another big year and it seems he hasnt lost any form at all
We already have 3 or so midfielders around the money he is asking for, its not unreasonable that he doesnt want to settle for less just because some reckon its destabilising. Besides, he hasnt signed a contract before the season is out yet but because Mick isnt here anymore, the supporters need a new target and the media need a story and what a perfect combo that is for outrageous reactions
Rubbish post, expected from you.
Even an out of form Dawes kicked a couple of goals against Freo when Cloke got subbed off and Dawes went to the goal square.
And this is the second time you're trying to pass on 3 of our mids being on the same wages that Cloke is demanding for a fact when in reality you have absolutely no idea if this is the case.
Yeah facts are rubbish...
Good on Dawes for being able to kick 3 junk time goals from the goal square, it doubled his season tally! Did you watch him on Friday night, took 1 mark inside 50 and sprayed a simple shot...
A forward line needs to be able to cover when 1 player is having an off night, Travis and Goldy have to cover for every game this season, when is he going to stand up?
To think everyone rubbished the idea of dropping Dawes 6 weeks ago, in that time he did nothing now everyone wants him dropped, shame we are now into a tough period where we can't really afford a complete reshuffle of the forward line so players can get used to new roles...
As for this rubbish about him following Malthouse to Carlton, its a strange one given the history of Malthouse and the Cloke family
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:29 pm
by Deja Vu
eddiesmith wrote:Deja Vu wrote:eddiesmith wrote:
We already have 3 or so midfielders around the money he is asking for, its not unreasonable that he doesnt want to settle for less just because some reckon its destabilising. Besides, he hasnt signed a contract before the season is out yet but because Mick isnt here anymore, the supporters need a new target and the media need a story and what a perfect combo that is for outrageous reactions
We can only go by what is reported, but if Travis actually was only asking for what our other midfielders are getting, the deal would have been done, because no one is on more than $750K.
And if anyone was going to be on more than that, Swanny and Pendles would deserve that kind of money ahead of Travis anyway.
Could you imagine Swanny or Pendles holding out for a million large if every 2nd kick they had missed it's target? Because although Cloke is a contested marking monster, his kicking is woeful, and he is only doing half the job.
If he was a better kick he would be worth the money he's asking for.
As it stands, there may be better options. Has Kurt Tippet signed up yet?
Nice exaggeration there, he has had 154 kicks for the year, pretty sure alot more than 75 have hit the target especially as 33 have been goals and only kicked 18 behinds...
He would probably also be pretty close to leading the club for goal assists as he works hard and does everything needed. Sure we would all love it if he kicked as straight as Buddy does, oh wait, maybe not
The biggest problem with letting him go is you would need a ready made replacement from another club, don't see them available via free agency and we won't be getting them via trade, because there is no one in the club who could go close to offering the target Travis does now and no one in the club who could kick 60-70 goals a year
Sure some of our younger brigade might get there when they reach 24-25, but this side is in its premiership window now
33.18 does not count the ones that fail to register a score.
As for comparing him to Buddy....
The next time Travis has 17 shots at goal in one game be sure to let us all know.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:34 pm
by eddiesmith
Deja Vu wrote:eddiesmith wrote:Deja Vu wrote:
We can only go by what is reported, but if Travis actually was only asking for what our other midfielders are getting, the deal would have been done, because no one is on more than $750K.
And if anyone was going to be on more than that, Swanny and Pendles would deserve that kind of money ahead of Travis anyway.
Could you imagine Swanny or Pendles holding out for a million large if every 2nd kick they had missed it's target? Because although Cloke is a contested marking monster, his kicking is woeful, and he is only doing half the job.
If he was a better kick he would be worth the money he's asking for.
As it stands, there may be better options. Has Kurt Tippet signed up yet?
Nice exaggeration there, he has had 154 kicks for the year, pretty sure alot more than 75 have hit the target especially as 33 have been goals and only kicked 18 behinds...
He would probably also be pretty close to leading the club for goal assists as he works hard and does everything needed. Sure we would all love it if he kicked as straight as Buddy does, oh wait, maybe not
The biggest problem with letting him go is you would need a ready made replacement from another club, don't see them available via free agency and we won't be getting them via trade, because there is no one in the club who could go close to offering the target Travis does now and no one in the club who could kick 60-70 goals a year
Sure some of our younger brigade might get there when they reach 24-25, but this side is in its premiership window now
33.18 does not count the ones that fail to register a score.
As for comparing him to Buddy....
The next time Travis has 17 shots at goal in one game be sure to let us all know.
Sure, can we get Hawthorns midfield and Al Clarkson as coach first though?
Funny how he can get Buddy isolated up forward but we can't with Cloke, although also helps when you have a dangerous crumber whilst our small forwards want to take mark of the year instead of getting the crumbs.
The other great advantage of Travis, he doesnt get outmarked. Back when Tarrant and Rocca were our forward line they would often be outmarked, now if Trav doesnt win the contest the ball hits the ground, Dawes gets outmarked all the time and when he doesnt he just drops uncontested chest marks. Why our team doesnt have a decent crumber to seize the chances I don't know...
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:37 pm
by Beast
eddiesmith wrote:Beast wrote:eddiesmith wrote:You have to remember there are some on here who have never liked him and always look for a chance to stick the knives in, its no wonder people would think of leaving given the supporters the club has
The other thing is, he is our leading goal kicker with more than double the amount of the next player (Someone else who most on here never wanted in the team) and 5 times as many goals as our other key forward, but yeah the team will be fine without him
Also for the stats people out there, this time last year he had kicked 2 more goals than he has this year, think he might be on track for another big year and it seems he hasnt lost any form at all
We already have 3 or so midfielders around the money he is asking for, its not unreasonable that he doesnt want to settle for less just because some reckon its destabilising. Besides, he hasnt signed a contract before the season is out yet but because Mick isnt here anymore, the supporters need a new target and the media need a story and what a perfect combo that is for outrageous reactions
Rubbish post, expected from you.
Even an out of form Dawes kicked a couple of goals against Freo when Cloke got subbed off and Dawes went to the goal square.
And this is the second time you're trying to pass on 3 of our mids being on the same wages that Cloke is demanding for a fact when in reality you have absolutely no idea if this is the case.
Yeah facts are rubbish...
Good on Dawes for being able to kick 3 junk time goals from the goal square, it doubled his season tally! Did you watch him on Friday night, took 1 mark inside 50 and sprayed a simple shot...
A forward line needs to be able to cover when 1 player is having an off night, Travis and Goldy have to cover for every game this season, when is he going to stand up?
To think everyone rubbished the idea of dropping Dawes 6 weeks ago, in that time he did nothing now everyone wants him dropped, shame we are now into a tough period where we can't really afford a complete reshuffle of the forward line so players can get used to new roles...
As for this rubbish about him following Malthouse to Carlton, its a strange one given the history of Malthouse and the Cloke family
I'm one of the harshest critics of Dawes so you don't have to tell me they were cheap goals but Cloke hardly ever kicks those and its just showed that plonking Dawes to goalsquare can achieve the same results Cloke achieves week in week out. And I wanted Dawes dropped months ago and still do.
You've failed to address making up salaries of our mids to suit your argument by the way......
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:51 pm
by Beast
Jesus Eddie, you aren't trying to tell us that Cloke is in the same ball park with Buddy talent wise are you?
One is a once in a generation player and when he retires will be compared to the greats of the game the other is a run of the mill decent forward who excels at contested marking.
Cloke is hardly worth half of what Buddy is getting paid, I rate someone like Jay Schulz higher than him.
I don't want Cloke to go and still think he'll stay but I'd be offering him 4 years at 700K and telling him take it or leave it.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:52 pm
by HAL
I know one is between zero and two but I had no idea it was a in a generation player and when he retires will be compared to the greats of the game the other is a run of the mill decent who excels at contested marking.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:55 pm
by RudeBoy
Some of you guys are missing the point.
We all (well most of us anyway) know that Cloke is a great player. That should not be in dispute. What some of us are concerned at is the public distraction caused by Cloke's management dragging out the negotiations and now negotiating with other clubs. Enough is enough. This is a team sport, and while players are entitled to negotiate for good deals, they also have a responsibility to their team, even if this means sacrificing some dough. Now that we are at the pointy end of the season, him holding out for more dough, signals that he does not value being a Collingwood player enough. If $750-800,000 pa is not enough, then phuk off and phuk off now.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:55 pm
by eddiesmith
Beast wrote:Jesus Eddie, you aren't trying to tell us that Cloke is in the same ball park with Buddy talent wise are you?
One is a once in a generation player and when he retires will be compared to the greats of the game the other is a run of the mill decent forward who excels at contested marking.
Cloke is hardly worth half of what Buddy is getting paid, I rate someone like Jay Schulz higher than him.
I don't want Cloke to go and still think he'll stay but I'd be offering him 4 years at 700K and telling him take it or leave it.
Not really, just people complain about his kicking accuracy when he has improved it greatly, then all cry for Buddy who kicks at below 50%
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:59 pm
by Beast
eddiesmith wrote:Beast wrote:Jesus Eddie, you aren't trying to tell us that Cloke is in the same ball park with Buddy talent wise are you?
One is a once in a generation player and when he retires will be compared to the greats of the game the other is a run of the mill decent forward who excels at contested marking.
Cloke is hardly worth half of what Buddy is getting paid, I rate someone like Jay Schulz higher than him.
I don't want Cloke to go and still think he'll stay but I'd be offering him 4 years at 700K and telling him take it or leave it.
Not really, just people complain about his kicking accuracy when he has improved it greatly, then all cry for Buddy who kicks at below 50%
I'd be happy with that accuracy if he was getting over ten shots on goal every game.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:34 pm
by Deja Vu
Luke Darcy reckons the Blues should all take a pay cut for Travis...
http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default ... sid=140903