Post-match: Pies down to Carlton

[stui magpie]

^

I'm with that. If Drongo has become a censored word then we are in deep (politically correct) shite

[bally12]

A few observations on players yesterday:

- Grundy was useless. He just shuffles around, can't mark (in fact couldn't outmark or spoil a smaller opponent), slow to move the ball on. He gives the impression he'd rather read a good book, than be out there on the MCG. Still young, but some worrying signs.

- Oxley lacks intensity at the contest, and is too slow to play in defence, other than a loose man. There was a static-play situation yesterday where his opponent lost him by 2m to take the mark 30m out and kick a goal. He's good at intercept marking, and can use it by foot, but slow to make decisions.

- I'm liking what I'm seeing from Maynard. Brings intensity and power at the contest and willing to take the opposition on. His decision-making is also improving.

- Fas has really improved, and taken the next step. Well done mate, keep improving, don't rest on your laurels. You've surprised a lot of supporters, including me.

- Darcy Moore is going to be a special player for us. I also liked Smith's game. Pretty good for a 2nd-gamer (even though he's a mature-age at 22).

[watt price tully]

From Wiki:

The drongos, subfamily Dicrurinae, are a subfamily of small passerine birds of the Old World tropics in the family Dicruridae (from Wikipedia)

Also from Wiki

Etymology 2
From an Australian racehorse named Drongo, apparently after the bird (specifically, after the spangled drongo, Dicrurus bracteatus). The horse (foaled 1921, retired 1925) ran poorly, and by transference anyone slow-witted or clumsy became a drongo.

Alternatively, from putative RAAF slang drongo (a recruit), similarly after the bird

Another suggested derivation is the Scottish Gaelic drongair ‎("drunkard").

And again from wiki:

drongo ‎(plural drongos)

(Australia, New Zealand, slang, pejorative) A fool, an idiot.  
Synonyms
(clumsy fool; idiot): cretin, doilem (Geordie), dufus, fool, glaik (Geordie), idiot, mong

[John Wren]

Come on mods you can't be serious. I should apologise for saying that many people in the Game ON thread are drongos? That's the word that was snipped from my posting. Drongos! Really? That great Aussie insult is deemed too hot for Nick's? How about ratbag? Would that pass muster? Do we have a new team of young mods from the millennial generation who have never heard the word? Sorry mods but this is a clear case of over reach.

<Mod edit: How about focussing on arguing the merits of your case, instead of resorting to insults, fair dinkum Aussie or otherwise? And if you have an issue with moderation there are channels you can go through.>

And some of those people in the Game On thread do go running to mama when they are criticised. It's a fact. Happy to provide examples too.

<Mod edit: It's also a fact that the mods exercise their own discretion when they see something they don't like, without being called on.>

I can sort of understand people not liking being called whiny little bitches (and I meant men and women here so it's not sexist), but has Nick's become so sanitised and PC that one can't even sling off at the (searches for a Mod-approved word) not very bright people always calling for sackings?

<Mod edit: You can critique posts that you disagree with as much as you like, provided you do so respectfully. Go for the ball, not the other player.>

Come on Mods Team, these people, who are perfectly entitled to express their views, should be able to stand the heat if their comments are interpreted as being, unhinged and moronic. If they can't handle that, they should slink off to other places where they may feel more comfortable.

<Mod edit: There are ways of putting the heat on opinions "these people" post without resorting to insults. And yes, if they don't like their opinions being challenged, they are free to discontinue posting. Or use the freely available 'ignore' function. We'd prefer you both stay and debate respectfully, though. - bbmods>

I'm with you on this one Neil.
Drongo is one of the greatest words in the Australian lingo!
That poor old horse Drongo came last in about 25 races.
He is now part of Australian folklore!
What an honour to be called a drongo instead of loser.
Of course the word loser abounds on Nicks.
I once called a a poster a rabbit!!!
I think I got a yellow card for that.
So Neil we should join forces and promote the words Drongo and Rabbit on Nicks.
We can't have our culture go down the American drain.

really? you got a card for calling someone a rabbit? that's absurd if true.

[thompsoc]

I think it was warning
But a yellow card sounds better.
I have had a few of those too.
I am really trying very hard to be on the right side of yellow these days.

[John Wren]

that makes it hard to maintain the outrage.
i like the word pillock. e.g the umpire was being a pillock with some of his decisions. don't be a pillock. you pillock.

[Redlight]

The gameplan is an unmitigated disaster. I just watched the replay and watched the zone set up.

Frost and his fellow defenders were running around like confused players that were unsure where to run to or go to their man.

At one point before H/T, Frost was near Casboult. He was unsure to engage his opponent or protect space. He decided to protect space and refused to follow Casboult.

Casboult then engaged Maynard and took an uncontested mark over him in the goal square. The zone has confused players and is non AFL standard.

Thanks for this. From watching us play, I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing to do with lack of effort from our guys, but total lack of clarity on where they should be, what or whom they should be guarding. But I have not played the game, so I needed confirmation for my opinion. And this is it. Totally what i have seen.
We obviously changed our defensive structures over the preseason, because last year I thought our defence was OK. Often stood up brilliantly under enormous pressure.
Now, our defenders are clearly bamboozled, and as a result our defensive structures are collapsing or non-existent.
Add to that the regular annihilation of our midfield, and you have a defence catastrophe.
The next question I want answered: why is our midfield being smashed so often? I refuse to believe that it is any shortfall in ability. Is it simply being out of form? Or is it that our structures in this area as well are bamboozling our players?

That's hilarious. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

[HAL]

Oops. Too much data.

[Magpietothemax]

The gameplan is an unmitigated disaster. I just watched the replay and watched the zone set up.

Frost and his fellow defenders were running around like confused players that were unsure where to run to or go to their man.

At one point before H/T, Frost was near Casboult. He was unsure to engage his opponent or protect space. He decided to protect space and refused to follow Casboult.

Casboult then engaged Maynard and took an uncontested mark over him in the goal square. The zone has confused players and is non AFL standard.

Thanks for this. From watching us play, I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing to do with lack of effort from our guys, but total lack of clarity on where they should be, what or whom they should be guarding. But I have not played the game, so I needed confirmation for my opinion. And this is it. Totally what i have seen.
We obviously changed our defensive structures over the preseason, because last year I thought our defence was OK. Often stood up brilliantly under enormous pressure.
Now, our defenders are clearly bamboozled, and as a result our defensive structures are collapsing or non-existent.
Add to that the regular annihilation of our midfield, and you have a defence catastrophe.
The next question I want answered: why is our midfield being smashed so often? I refuse to believe that it is any shortfall in ability. Is it simply being out of form? Or is it that our structures in this area as well are bamboozling our players?

That's hilarious. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

What is hilarious is those who throw in cynical one liners at the expense of others, to make themselves feel better.

[John Wren]

The gameplan is an unmitigated disaster. I just watched the replay and watched the zone set up.

Frost and his fellow defenders were running around like confused players that were unsure where to run to or go to their man.

At one point before H/T, Frost was near Casboult. He was unsure to engage his opponent or protect space. He decided to protect space and refused to follow Casboult.

Casboult then engaged Maynard and took an uncontested mark over him in the goal square. The zone has confused players and is non AFL standard.

Thanks for this. From watching us play, I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing to do with lack of effort from our guys, but total lack of clarity on where they should be, what or whom they should be guarding. But I have not played the game, so I needed confirmation for my opinion. And this is it. Totally what i have seen.
We obviously changed our defensive structures over the preseason, because last year I thought our defence was OK. Often stood up brilliantly under enormous pressure.
Now, our defenders are clearly bamboozled, and as a result our defensive structures are collapsing or non-existent.
Add to that the regular annihilation of our midfield, and you have a defence catastrophe.
The next question I want answered: why is our midfield being smashed so often? I refuse to believe that it is any shortfall in ability. Is it simply being out of form? Or is it that our structures in this area as well are bamboozling our players?

That's hilarious. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

all this talk of structures. does anyone actually know what a modern day afl structure looks like? many appear to think they know what it doesn't look like but not seen much evidence anyone knows what it should be. such a parroted line.

[Pies4shaw]

Cmon JW - you're getting very close to being inappropriately ornithological. I feel a <snip> in the air.

[Mugwump]

A few observations on players yesterday:

- Grundy was useless. He just shuffles around, can't mark (in fact couldn't outmark or spoil a smaller opponent), slow to move the ball on. He gives the impression he'd rather read a good book, than be out there on the MCG. Still young, but some worrying signs.

- Oxley lacks intensity at the contest, and is too slow to play in defence, other than a loose man. There was a static-play situation yesterday where his opponent lost him by 2m to take the mark 30m out and kick a goal. He's good at intercept marking, and can use it by foot, but slow to make decisions.

- I'm liking what I'm seeing from Maynard. Brings intensity and power at the contest and willing to take the opposition on. His decision-making is also improving.

- Fas has really improved, and taken the next step. Well done mate, keep improving, don't rest on your laurels. You've surprised a lot of supporters, including me.

- Darcy Moore is going to be a special player for us. I also liked Smith's game. Pretty good for a 2nd-gamer (even though he's a mature-age at 22).

High quality posting, Bally12, both here and in your game plan thread. I agree with all of that, especially the point about Grundy. He is young, yes, but he's been in the system for some years now and he should be having more impact. I honestly doubt he's a ruckman, and i woild try him as a purely clearance player, where his bulk and strength might surprise. Otherwise, he should go back to the twos until he is cleaning up with mark after mark around the ground. I don't say he won't make it, but it's not looking good enough yet.

Oxley is a bit of an enigma to me, and i'd try him up forward. He's a strong mark and a straight kick, and woild complement Fas well. He too might have to learn the caper in the magoos for a stretch.

Fas has been the one really positive surprise this season. It took a long time, but he has made it. I hope he can keep his spirit up as we work through this depressing period.

[Brenny]

^ Thank god somebody else agrees about Grundy!

Time for a spell in my opinion. Give Witts a shot; seeing we are changing players every week.

I was annoyed with Grundy. Why it took a half before he finally decided to jump at a ruck contest is beyond me.

[simon tonna]

it's complacency and witts has it too. some G&D and one on one hatred against your immediate opponent is something missing from all the players this year.

[Flashman]

Grundy played his first shocker this season. Prior to Saturday he'd been solid in every game. Dropping players immediately after one bad game (especially a developing player and yes ruckmen do take longer to develop) isn't the answer at all.

Brodie is generally a good ball winner for a follower and offers us much, much more than Witts in this regard (who is simply too ponderous to make contests or provide second and third efforts which Grundy is very good at).

I agree that his overhead and contested marking isn't good enough and he needs to develop this aspect of his game (as does Witts) otherwise he's never going to develop to the next level. I don't have much hope for this though as it hasn't improved one iota from when he first was at the club and if the Chris Dawes precedent is anything to go by I don't think improvement will happen at all (In the years Dawes was on our list he never learnt the correct technique to mark overhead competently).