Crimes that deserve the death penalty?

[stui magpie]

All the guys I've known who did time, did rehabilitate.

Probably a dodgy sample because I don't hang around with guys who are crooks.

[think positive]

All the guys I've known who did time, did rehabilitate.

Probably a dodgy sample because I don't hang around with guys who are crooks.

You missed the other part of my rant

What kind of crime did they rehabilitate from?

And did they do anything to make it up to whoever was their victim?

[stui magpie]

AFAIK petty shit, I don't make it a habit to drill people about their lives. Usually when people tell me voluntarily (which happens too often) I've forgotten it 5 minutes later.

I only retain stuff I'm interested in, which is probably why I've always been shitful with peoples names.

[David]

And yet you still haven't answered the question, who is going to pay for it all?

Taxpayers, naturally.

Something like this might actually teach them something
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tent- ... le/2546924

You have to give people a reason to rehabilitate, most of em are lazy sods, you have to put them out of their comfort zone to get them to shift themselves

Sounds pretty disgusting to me. If anyone can demonstrate that this kind of humiliation and brutality have a positive long-term rehabilitative effect, then I'm willing to listen; but this just sounds like mini-fascists enjoying a power trip.

Let's go in the opposite direction entirely. Giving prisoners freedom and dignity is not only more humane, it actually seems to work:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magaz ... .html?_r=0

And here's the dark(er) side of your Tent City:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/dead-end-6438519

[think positive]

AFAIK petty shit, I don't make it a habit to drill people about their lives. Usually when people tell me voluntarily (which happens too often) I've forgotten it 5 minutes later.

I only retain stuff I'm interested in, which is probably why I've always been shitful with peoples names.

That's an Ozzie thang! Why you all call each other mate or cobber!

[Jezza]

One of the difficult but essential things we need to reconcile in our minds is that people like this - and Anders Breivik, and Adrian Bayley, and even Adolf Hitler - are human beings, complex human beings like you and me with emotions and hopes and dreams, not monsters or extraterrestrials.

I know it seems weird for me to say this as an atheist, but I sometimes wish that our society would remember some of its own Christian cultural background, and the fundamental belief that all people are loved by God, and all are capable of redemption and forgiveness. That's not so much an argument for or against capital punishment as an argument for humanity and empathy. It's a beautiful doctrine, and it saddens me that our society no longer seems to have any time for it (if it ever did). Our society has become one of hatred, and judgement, and of kicking the weak while they're down. How we treat criminals is actually a hugely significant part of that.

I am not saying that we should feel less empathy for victims and their families. It is essential that we can put ourselves in their shoes. But if you profess to care so much about children, remember that this alleged rapist/murderer was once a child too who needed love and compassion. We can help children to grow up with empathy by providing a positive example in the way we treat and talk about others.

And jezza as for the it's no deterrent, it sure is to the bastard with the lead in his black heart, or the electric shock zapping his body!

I'm talking about deterrence in the sense of future offenders who may commit similar crimes to the person who has been recently executed via capital punishment.

Here are some good articles that might be of interest to you raising the arguments of deterrence from both sides in support or against the death penalty.

http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/stude ... ment1a.htm

http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/stude ... ment1b.htm

[Mugwump]

[think positive]

And yet you still haven't answered the question, who is going to pay for it all?

Taxpayers, naturally.

Something like this might actually teach them something
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tent- ... le/2546924

You have to give people a reason to rehabilitate, most of em are lazy sods, you have to put them out of their comfort zone to get them to shift themselves

Sounds pretty disgusting to me. If anyone can demonstrate that this kind of humiliation and brutality have a positive long-term rehabilitative effect, then I'm willing to listen; but this just sounds like mini-fascists enjoying a power trip.

Let's go in the opposite direction entirely. Giving prisoners freedom and dignity is not only more humane, it actually seems to work:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magaz ... .html?_r=0

And here's the dark(er) side of your Tent City:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/dead-end-6438519

Because we have an endless supply of money and don't know what to do with it?

So many more worthy ways to spend it

[HAL]

There exists anyone can demonstrate that this kind of humiliation and brutality.

[Wokko]

I've done a bit of research on this and Norway with its 'hotel like' prisons (compared to USA for example) has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. Now there are significant demographic differences, so I'd be more interested in say Sweden's statistics over the last 5 years but the evidence at hand seems to be against super harsh treatment of criminals.

I'd say however that the willful murder of a child nullifies someone's right to a social contract that includes rehabilitation and reintegration. Throw those in a hole for all I care (metaphorically speaking). Treat them with the barest semblance of humanity (3x3 cell, bed, toilet, books) and throw away the key.

[Mugwump]

^ Broadly agree, Wokko, but why restrain this to child murder ? What makes the murder of a 20 year-old or a 50 year-old substantially less damaging ?

I think we have become creepingly lenient on the matter of murder. It is the ultimate act of negation, depriving the victim and their family of every hope. 15 years followed by a residual lifetime of sunsets and autumns and football games etc for the perpetrator seems to me disproportionately low unless there were serious mitigating factors. I could do with fewer prison sentences for minor violence if we were to look again at 25 year minimum terms for murder.

On the subject of prisons, yes, for most crimes, good prison conditions are probably conducive to rehab, which is a proper goal.

[Skids]

[Skids]

I think we have become creepingly lenient on the matter of murder. It is the ultimate act of negation, depriving the victim and their family of every hope. 15 years followed by a residual lifetime of sunsets and autumns and football games etc for the perpetrator seems to me disproportionately low unless there were serious mitigating factors. I could do with fewer prison sentences for minor violence if we were to look again at 25 year minimum terms for murder.
.

BAM

[David]

[Doc63]

We can (and have) debated the death penalty until the cows come home, it aint coming back - ever. I'm a supporter of it in certain circumstances, but I know it will never happen again, and i'm not sure I trust our politicians to get it right anyway.

So, really, we should be discussing whatever the maximum penalty for this crime is, and should this scum get it or not.