Beginning of the End of Privacy on the Internet

[Mugwump]

[David]

That still leaves the question unanswered, though: why does privacy matter?

[HAL]

Does that make sense?

[pietillidie]

That still leaves the question unanswered, though: why does privacy matter?

One of the main contributions of liberal thought is the conclusion that we're really bad and/or mischievous judges of others. This conclusion was pretty obvious when people were at the mercy of vulgar kings and lords.

Mercifully, we now have broader-based rights and a working class with modest power. However, that means many people identify with a strong majority group, secure from the whims of mob and millionaire, but at risk of downplaying privacy protections from a perceived safe middle.

This is why it's crucial to ponder this question from the perspective of someone with something at stake. No one gives a rats about the private lives of most of us; but, we're not being made an example of by a populist mob, or conversely treading on the toes of power.

[stui magpie]

That still leaves the question unanswered, though: why does privacy matter?

OK, let's start with your almost orwellian extreme, forget the change that would mean to everyone and assume you grew up in that world.

Lets also assume that we have the same democratic system of government as we have now, not a totalitarian government like in 1984.

What is society like?

Everyone grows up knowing that every action is recorded somewhere, each online activity is public knowledge as is each financial transaction. You know that when you have sex, take a dump, have a shower, it's being recorded and someone could be watching it.

People who protest things they don't like, or who take to social media to bully people who's opinion they don't like would not have the benefit of anonymity.

If someone doesn't like you, and compiles a bunch of your available data to try to prove what an arse you are had better be a total cleanskin themself. "let he who is without sin......"

It's an interesting thought experiment.

Would society be a worse place if there was no shame? No pretence?

Forget the carefully edited and photoshopped pics of celebrity lives that make people aspire to be like them, if you could see them waking up in the morning looking like a bag of shite, there goes that fascination. Would a woman bother putting on all that make up and a padded bra for a date if she knew that her prospective date could be watching her getting dressed?

You cheat on your partner, you know it's on record somewhere. How much would behaviour change?

What would be the consequences of having all that information public, because it's consequences that drive behaviour.

I'm not sure if it would be a better or worse world, but it would be different.

[think positive]

That still leaves the question unanswered, though: why does privacy matter?

im sure there is a thread with that title somewhere!!

for me, i dont post anything on facebook that i may want to retract someday. because regardless of the delete button, its too easy for someone to copy it before you change your mind. (and i watch too many movies - is anything ever really deleted!!) Plus although My account is set to private, if a friend shares, your shit is out there anyway. with so many users facebook is definitely an unstable platform.

Im more concerned with privacy when it comes to banking and business related stuff. i have plenty of spyware, anti phiysing and virus protection, but i still dont trust it. i

i dont have a problem with CCTV cameras even in a public bathroom as long as they stay out of the stalls. We have working CCTV cameras, bloody crazy not to these days, i never answer the door without checking who is there.

[Mugwump]

That still leaves the question unanswered, though: why does privacy matter?

It might be an interesting philosophical question, but I don't think it is very relevant to policy. Why does love matter, or family, or friendship ? Because humans feel in their being that it does. With enough totalitarianism, you might be able to bleed this out of humanity, but we build societies around human nature.

As a matter of philosophy, I think it is do with the fact that we must own ourselves if we are to have free will, and to be autonomous and psychologically unique. As owners of ourselves,we must be allowed to freely do with ourselves what we wish, without the appraisal of those who do not need to be involved. The law, of course, sets limits on that freedom to protect others, and sometimes ourselves.

The alternative explanation is that we are all sinners, and we still (just) have a sense of shame about the inner corruption of body and mind. But our more secular citizens may have problems with that view. Certainly as we grow more secular, our sense of shame seems to be diminishing.

[David]

[stui magpie]

^

Ok, but spin that another way.

In a society where there is no privacy, when someone seeks to hide things it sticks out like dogs balls.

You can argue the wealthy could get around being on camera 24/7, but how do they do that without people noticing? What's that line about the absence of something formerly there?

If the laws applied equally across the board, the wealthy have no get out clause and therefore there's no power imbalance.

[Mugwump]

[pietillidie]

[think positive]

That still leaves the question unanswered, though: why does privacy matter?

One of the main contributions of liberal thought is the conclusion that we're really bad and/or mischievous judges of others. This conclusion was pretty obvious when people were at the mercy of vulgar kings and lords.

Mercifully, we now have broader-based rights and a working class with modest power. However, that means many people identify with a strong majority group, secure from the whims of mob and millionaire, but at risk of downplaying privacy protections from a perceived safe middle.

This is why it's crucial to ponder this question from the perspective of someone with something at stake. No one gives a rats about the private lives of most of us; but, we're not being made an example of by a populist mob, or conversely treading on the toes of power.

Great post.

David why does privacy matter to you?

Is anyone else thinking hunger games or some other sci fi series right now? Stui there is a movie in the vein your describing, can't think of it?

It's spooky

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

Is anyone else thinking hunger games or some other sci fi series right now? Stui there is a movie in the vein your describing, can't think of it?

It's spooky

Not really. 1984 y george orwell covers the principles of the constant surveillance, but that was a totalitarian government that brainwashed everyone. Think North Korea with constant video surveillance.

I was trying to paint a picture of having everything public but in a democracy where everyone could access everything, not just the government, thus ensuring no one could hide anything and empowering the people.

it would make a shit movie, unless you found a twist where someone could crack the system and steal stuff and someone else had to figure out how to do the same to stop them.

[David]