Bondi Junction Stabbings

[Culprit]

2 security guards were killed, 1 male 1 female and yes, the male was a Pakistani refugee.

Brave souls and very sad and maybe the security industry will get a massive overhaul but I doubt it as that would cost businesses money.

[Skids]

Institutionalisation seems to be beside the point. Someone who’s homeless needs a proper place to sleep and live first and foremost. There should be enough beds and houses out there for destitute people. Then there ought to be support workers regularly checking in and providing care for the people who require it, like those with mental illness or suffering from drug addiction. Say, once a week, bring the checklist out with all the known homeless people in the area: where’s Joel, does he have enough food, is he in a bad headspace, etc. And if he’s back on the streets, find him and spend some time with him to figure out what’s going on. I don’t care how much it costs; something like this should be the basic minimum standard expected for anyone in society.

We talk about people falling through cracks, but the cracks are more like gaping chasms. That’s the problem here, not that we stopped forcibly locking up those with mental illnesses.

Bringing over half a million people into the country every year, when we already have; housing shortages, health funding shortages and falling water resources is always going to be a massive challenge.
Just wait until Iron Ore is back around $60/tonne.

You might not care how much it costs, but you can't have champagne on a beer budget.

[David]

[Culprit]

^^I work in Defence facilities where Wilson Security is the main Security firm. Do I feel safe? Not with them as I can outrun most of them.

"It only takes 18 days to complete the course, which means you'll be qualified in no time. Once you've completed the course and applied for your security license, you'll be ready to begin applying for work as a security guard in a variety of settings around Australia.

[stui magpie]

Geez there's some knee jerk reactions here.

This guy didn't do this because he was homeless, he was able to buy a feed only hours before the attack so he wasn't starving. He was mentally ill and off his meds and something triggered him.

Closing the big psych institutions like Mont Park was in line with best practice in treating mental health. Treat them in the community. (That the community facilities are stretched to say the least is not the point, that's a different discussion) They still have Psych inpatient units where people can be involuntarily admitted and assessed, but in Victoria at least between the Mental Health Act and the Human Rights Charter it's difficult to hold someone and/or medicate them against their will (as it should be) unless they're assessed as a danger to themselves or others. This bloke was never assessed as either, he was not considered a risk.

Psychiatry, Psychology and medication have come a long way since the 1960's and earlier where they weren't able to treat conditions that they now can. Back then, if Aunt Mabel was a little off, just pack her off to the loony bin, out of sight, out of mind where she can't be an embarrassment to polite society.

Really bad bastards can still be locked up in the Psych faclity in Fairfield.

And yeah, concur with the above assessments of Security, most just aren't equipped to deal with a real confrontation let alone an armed lunatic.

[Culprit]

^^I agree Stui. I read he had a meal and couldn't pay and then came back later and paid for the meal and then went killing. So many questions and we will never know.

[pietillidie]

^^I work in Defence facilities where Wilson Security is the main Security firm. Do I feel safe? Not with them as I can outrun most of them.

"It only takes 18 days to complete the course, which means you'll be qualified in no time. Once you've completed the course and applied for your security license, you'll be ready to begin applying for work as a security guard in a variety of settings around Australia.

To underscore the point, even I got a security licence for a uni job! However, it was for a nursing home and was more about being on call if nurses needed a hand, which was an awesome uni job. Actually, I also thought it was a great course. One thing I do remember is that in the course there were others for whom it was the first leg of a more serious course involving the carrying of guns, maybe for banks, Armaguard or somethinglike that. They were training to be proper security. But that was way back in the early 90s.

I sense from your answer you are thinking more along the lines of why I asked the question. David, I wasn't blaming the poor security victims. I was more getting at the spend, training and seriousness of anything being adequate when it comes to managing risk, and wondering if they were left exposed by upper management.

Westfield Bondi Junction is presumably no Wheelers Hill arcade where I grew up with a few pensioners and stay-at-home mums wandering through. So, That would make them victims in two senses, i.e., literally of the killer, and organisationally because they were mismanaged and used to check box legal requirements rather than be part of a properly organised team.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with mixing workers of different levels; that's necessary and normal. But where was the CCTV monitoring? The smart scanning technology which can easily detect disturbances using pattern detection and then alert people? The senior badass at Culprit's level of expertise you call when a fight breaks out? Maybe that's just me being naive of these things.

Imagine if the heroic cop wasn't nearby? And wasn't she only nearby perchance?

Perhaps it all happened too quickly regardless and I'm projecting because security over here seems woefully inadequate. But as we know everything these days is under-staffed and under-serviced, which drives up risk, making companies and investors wealthier while others wear the cost of that risk.

Anyhow, I don't want to start another line of conspiracy theorising, but this is certainly a more productive line of enquiry than piling on the homeless and mentally ill.

[Meredith1965]

^ Stui, if “Closing the big psych institutions like Mont Park was in line with best practice in treating mental health” and it has given us Cauchi and Gargasoulas and no doubt hundreds of other smaller familial tragedies (eg Phil Walsh), then “best” practice might be questionable.

[stui magpie]

^

Things are always questionable and able to be improved, but 2 serious incidents in 7 years in the Country could also be the exceptions that prove the rule.

Just like people recover from medical procedures better at home rather than being stuck in a hospital bed, mental health conditions are best treated in the community with dedicated resources, giving the person dignity, respect and independance rather than the old model of institutionalsing them for life just because they had mental illness.

I'm not suggesting the system is perfect, it's far from that, but the intent is right it's just the resourcing that's inadequate.

[think positive]

[quote="lazzadesilva"]Two things. Firstly I have heard so many times about people wanting to ban guns in the USA because someone with a gun can kill more people than people an arsehole with a knife. Obviously this is correct although a total of 6 or possibly more victims is still a significant amount of people. I feel so sad for the victims and families.
Secondly older Collingwood fans will always remember Kerry Good who kicked a goal well after the siren to win a night series grand final for North in 1977. Tragically one of the victims was his young daughter

[think positive]

^

Things are always questionable and able to be improved, but 2 serious incidents in 7 years in the Country could also be the exceptions that prove the rule.

Just like people recover from medical procedures better at home rather than being stuck in a hospital bed, mental health conditions are best treated in the community with dedicated resources, giving the person dignity, respect and independance rather than the old model of institutionalsing them for life just because they had mental illness.

I'm not suggesting the system is perfect, it's far from that, but the intent is right it's just the resourcing that's inadequate.

maybe something like a prison farm? or one of those Alzheimer villages, but with extra security.

[stui magpie]

^

The inpatient units serve that purpose. Many have an open door policy, people are able to go outside for a smoke or go for a walk and are trusted to come back. The idea is to get them in, get them stabiliised with meds, then get them back into the community with follow up from Mental Health pactitioners.

This bloke in question had been stable for over 20 years, living at home. Then he went off his meds and chose to travel the East Coast largely sleeping rough.

Anyway, only days after this incident there's been another stabbing in Sydney. This time a Teenager attacked 2 church clerics while a service was being live streamed and incited a riot by church followers who attacked the Police trying to get to the kid. This one HAS been labelled an act of Terrorism.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-16/ ... /103728120

Oddball church, quite extreme and hardline with some quite polarising opinions.

[think positive]

and the attacks on the cops should also be labeled terrorism, wtf is going on!

[Magpietothemax]

^ Stui, if “Closing the big psych institutions like Mont Park was in line with best practice in treating mental health” and it has given us Cauchi and Gargasoulas and no doubt hundreds of other smaller familial tragedies (eg Phil Walsh), then “best” practice might be questionable.

It was "best practice" according to the real estate industry and property speculators, that is for sure.

[Magpietothemax]