Should Australia go Nuclear?

[Culprit]

Any Australian government that wishes to go Nuclear Power has more hurdles to cope with the Grand National. This is all about keeping Coal and Gas going and ignoring renewables. This is all a distraction it's never going to happen.

Note: During COVID-19, everyone suddenly turned into Epidemiologists, and now we have the situation where people have turned into Nuclear physicists.

[stui magpie]

Answer to the OP question: should Australia go nuclear?
No, no nation state should try to build nuclear power reactors, while US imperialism is escalating war in Ukraine and Middle East
It is almost a miracle that there has not been a nuclear catastrophe in Ukraine, with a full scale war going on amidst nuclear reactors in Ukraine.
First, get rid of capitalism, and replace it with a world planned socialist economy, then start to think about where and how nuclear reactors should be built.

We're all likely to have suitcase size nuclear reactors powering our houses before your "world planned socialist economy" happens.

[What'sinaname]

Absolutely. Our plutonium will not be radioactive: Dutton will seek assurances.

For 80+ years, nuclear waste is stored on site in the US. Reactor now produce much less waste and with advances in recycling nuclear material, any waste produced from Australian reactors will be minimal.

It's a non-issue when considering the viability of nuclear energy. We know solar panels will be dumped in land fill, but we are still charging ahead with solar energy.

[Woods Of Ypres]

the time for nuclear was 40 years ago, perhaps it would have lessened some of the damage of fossil fuels. right now we are on the cusp of a renewable revolution, but potato-head Dutton decides now is the time.

we have the best country for harnessing solar & we have the most/highest purity silica sand for solar panel production. Albanese announced $1bn for solar panel manufacturing. Better late then never.

[stui magpie]

^

The problem is, there's no sunshine at night.

Wind and solar are intermittent, we need to have reliable baseload power 24/7. Solar can only ever provide a proportion of that unless/until they develop grid size batteries as Ptiddy said previously.

In the absence of those, you either need to keep burning coal or gas or go nuclear.

[nomadjack]

Modular nuclear tech looks promising but is as far if not further away from realisation than mass scale battery storage.

Are you sure you're not under-selling progress in grid-scale battery tech in the same way Abbott under-sold the falling price of solar panels?

^^^
No, I'm not sure at all and I genuinely hope I am. The rapid growth of renewable energy (despite generally hostile policy settings for much of the last decade at the federal level) has been remarkable. I'm more than happy to leave these technical decisions to those with far greater knowledge than me. What seems absolutely clear though is that nuclear energy is not the answer to potential energy supply problems we're likely to encounter over the next decade. Just when you thought the coalition couldn't sink any lower they surprise you...

[Culprit]

^

The problem is, there's no sunshine at night.

Wind and solar are intermittent, we need to have reliable baseload power 24/7. Solar can only ever provide a proportion of that unless/until they develop grid size batteries as Ptiddy said previously.

In the absence of those, you either need to keep burning coal or gas or go nuclear.

Hurdles (Facts). 1 - Potato Head wins the election. 2 - He must control the Senate. 3 - Change the law to allow Nuclear Power. 4 - He has to fight each State for Approval. 5 - He has to acquire or buy the proposed sites. These hurdles have to be cleared before any proposed project has started. Deal with the facts, not the BS. 2040 is more like 2060. Throw in technology changes so fast that we will probably have the flux capacitor soon enough.

[What'sinaname]

^

The problem is, there's no sunshine at night.

Wind and solar are intermittent, we need to have reliable baseload power 24/7. Solar can only ever provide a proportion of that unless/until they develop grid size batteries as Ptiddy said previously.

In the absence of those, you either need to keep burning coal or gas or go nuclear.

Hurdles (Facts). 1 - Potato Head wins the election. 2 - He must control the Senate. 3 - Change the law to allow Nuclear Power. 4 - He has to fight each State for Approval. 5 - He has to acquire or buy the proposed sites. These hurdles have to be cleared before any proposed project has started. Deal with the facts, not the BS. 2040 is more like 2060. Throw in technology changes so fast that we will probably have the flux capacitor soon enough.

These are all very true. It also ignore that renewables account for one third of our electricity. That's up a staggering 20 percent over the last 6 years, but the vast majority is household solar. That will taper off as you can't double install solar panels.

Solar and wind aren't growing quickly enough. Forget hydro as the cost of hydro is massively expensive.

Naïve people will quote LCOE, but the calculation isn't levelised at all. It assumes the cost of electricity at 1pm is the same at 1am and doesn't account for peak demand.

[Culprit]

Privatisation of public utilities has meant no investment in coal or gas power generation. It's been about running them with minimal maintenance and making maximum profits. They are now at the end of life. Gas power plants can be built quickly and more cheaply than coal. That's the mixture with renewables. Also, put power generation back in the public hands as Privatisation has done nothing for the end user.

[Skids]

Privatisation of public utilities has meant no investment in coal or gas power generation. It's been about running them with minimal maintenance and making maximum profits. They are now at the end of life. Gas power plants can be built quickly and more cheaply than coal. That's the mixture with renewables. Also, put power generation back in the public hands as Privatisation has done nothing for the end user.

Has privatisation been good for anything?

It's like me, selling all my plumbing tools and business years ago for a quick buck, then when that's gone....

[What'sinaname]

Privatisation of public utilities has meant no investment in coal or gas power generation. It's been about running them with minimal maintenance and making maximum profits. They are now at the end of life. Gas power plants can be built quickly and more cheaply than coal. That's the mixture with renewables. Also, put power generation back in the public hands as Privatisation has done nothing for the end user.

Has privatisation been good for anything?

It's like me, selling all my plumbing tools and business years ago for a quick buck, then when that's gone....

The Government has a proven track record of prudent investment, right? Desal plant, rail tunnel, road tunnels. All on time and on budget!

[stui magpie]

^

The problem is, there's no sunshine at night.

Wind and solar are intermittent, we need to have reliable baseload power 24/7. Solar can only ever provide a proportion of that unless/until they develop grid size batteries as Ptiddy said previously.

In the absence of those, you either need to keep burning coal or gas or go nuclear.

Hurdles (Facts). 1 - Potato Head wins the election. 2 - He must control the Senate. 3 - Change the law to allow Nuclear Power. 4 - He has to fight each State for Approval. 5 - He has to acquire or buy the proposed sites. These hurdles have to be cleared before any proposed project has started. Deal with the facts, not the BS. 2040 is more like 2060. Throw in technology changes so fast that we will probably have the flux capacitor soon enough.

All true, don't shoot the messenger, I just asked the question.

As you said, the coal fired power stations are rapidly approaching end of life so what are our options for reliable baseload power? Nuclear is one, but it clearly has a lot of hurdles in the road. Gas is less polluting than Coal but the Greens would still hate building new gas power plants. Hydrogen is theoretically an option but no one has got it working on a cost effective level. Nuclear is proven, Green (apart from the waste) and provides a long term wedge.

Whether it's practical with all of the inherent difficulties is another question as even if all those you list can be overcome, we have to set up a regulatory framework and get the right skills from somewhere cos we don't have them at the moment.

Anyway, interesting debate. I heard that some polls come out today saying that 60+% of people supported the idea, but then 80% of people supported The Voice before the scare campaign got rolling.

[pietillidie]

Yeah, good discussion. Well done, all.

[Culprit]

The polls are misleading in many ways, that's the nature of polls. https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 5jo48.html

The survey found voters were split on nuclear, with 41 per cent in favour and 37 per cent against, and that a clear majority backed renewables above other energy sources.

In a more detailed question about subsidies, reported here for the first time, voters favoured government support for rooftop solar above all other options.


Read into the polls as much as you want. I would suggest it's not an election winner, let alone controlling the Senate. "Tell him he's dreaming".


As I stated earlier I will not see Nuclear power stations in my lifetime. I will be lucky to make 85. So that's 24 years. I will most likely get dementia before that and won't give a crap then.

[roar]

Privatisation of public utilities has meant no investment in coal or gas power generation. It's been about running them with minimal maintenance and making maximum profits. They are now at the end of life. Gas power plants can be built quickly and more cheaply than coal. That's the mixture with renewables. Also, put power generation back in the public hands as Privatisation has done nothing for the end user.

Has privatisation been good for anything?

It's like me, selling all my plumbing tools and business years ago for a quick buck, then when that's gone....

The Government has a proven track record of prudent investment, right? Desal plant, rail tunnel, road tunnels. All on time and on budget!

Big private companies are no less wasteful. They are actually the one's running over time/budget, or cutting services when running a utility.