Our veteran quandary

[derkd]

For mine, the worry is this:

Injuries: so far almost all of the 30+ brigade have had injuries this year (bar the remarkable Crisp). Injuries in older players and more likely to be reoccurring and longer.

The age of our list will only be getting older I am note sure what our age profile will be next year, but I shudder to think.

As others have said, 2025 could see 8 or 9 players possibly all retiring at once. Hit a giant brick wall all at once....so what is the plan? Are many of these old guys playing VFL? In that instance, what is the point? If they are planning on playing them in the AFL what does this mean for younger players? And worse are they going to be dumped into the big time in 2026, when all these older guys start to retire???

The reason most sides ease veterans out, is so you are not left with a giant hole in the list all at once!

It is also (for mine) a bit depressing watching a team With this many older guys playing, where is the excitement of the next young generation Collingwood. Players like Pendles yes great watching him...he is a generation talent. I just don't see any of these older guys taking us up the ladder again...it didn't work this year...I am fairly sure it won't get any better next year

[Presti35]

I say, welcome back Sidey!

[pieboy]

^
I think that half of our veterans will retire next year and the other half in 2026. Many of our veterans already had contracts for next year, so I think there will be no triggers on contracts for next year so they can make a decision on which veterans finish in 2025 and which veterans finishes in 2026

[SLORT]

Howey once again was among our best against Brissy (equal second on Supercoach points with Naicos), and Sidey seems to have found his feet as a run-with. I reckon if Sidey does another job next week on all-chicken-no-dinner Langdon (who had a blinder on the Gold Coast) then no one should begrudge him another year in playing that role.

[RudeBoy]

Sidey was one of our best 3 players yesterday. Just saying.

[Pies4shaw]

A complete list of all Collingwood players who have had 34 or more disposals in at least one game in 2024:

Nick Daicos
Steele Sidebottom

Just saying.

[Pies2016]

The key to all these guys going around again in 2025, is both managing them physically and giving them less game day responsibilities wherever possible. I’m sure part of the plan in 2024 was to do exactly that but the injuries alone didn’t allow for the likes of Sidey, Pendles, Howe to be managed as the club would have ideally liked. Pendles missed a chunk with the arm but Sidey in particular had a workload that I imagine exceeded what the club had originally planned.
We need to find a way to have both Sidey and Pendles spend more time as either general defenders or forwards, so as to preserve their bodies a bit longer in 2025. Having said that, should the injury curse strike again in 2025, then all the above would go to shit very quickly anyway.

[piedys]

I reckon if Sidey does another job next week on all-chicken-no-dinner Langdon (who had a blinder on the Gold Coast) then no one should begrudge him another year in playing that role.

Wasn't it: all-duck-no-dinner Langdon? Stupid saying anyhoo.

They seem to match up well on each other, and should certainly be worth the watch on friday.

[qldmagpie67]

And just like that, two of our three picks have just drifted out that little bit further. Add in NGA, F /S bids plus compensation picks and our first pick is CURRENTLY very close to # 40. We simply have to improve our draft hand first before we concern ourselves with trading anyone back in. You can’t have the oldest team in the comp and not go to the draft until the beginning of the third round.

This has been a concern all the way along
Our issue was always two fold
You either need high end draft picks planning for the future replacing your veterans or a younger list building for the future
We have neither. We went all in 2022/23 and I get why trying to give Pendles another crack before he retired. But after we got that we needed an immediate reset.
Wright knew this and wanted change at the end of 2023. We lost Adam’s which was a start but it should have been 1 more veteran. End of 2024 it should have been 2 more veterans.
Now trotting out the line oh the younger players aren’t forcing the veterans out.
Well we didn’t help them playing them constantly out of position and not giving them continuity of games to settle and prove themselves.
If you think this hasn’t played a part in the likely departure of Richard’s you’re kidding yourself. He was in and out in and out.
He watched veterans perform poorly and retain there positions.
Case in point was Sidey. He was moved from a wing because he couldn’t play the position any longer. Went to HBF didn’t work. Went back into the midfield didn’t work. Finally gave him a run with role which he did well at.
Looking forward we’ve shown our hand with looking at big bodied mids (Peatling Hobbs Davies) to go in and under and work along side Mitchell Crisp JDG Allan Nick and part timers Elliott Schulz and McCreery. This clearly means there likely won’t be a spot for Pendles or Sidey playing midfield.
Where do they go ? Pendles maybe HBF to replace Noble ? Maybe some time at HF ?
There won’t be a run with role each week so where do we play Sidey ?
Now Pendles is playing on looking towards the games record. Giving him a shot at that I get it’s something reachable but it’s a romantic dream. Why is Sidey playing on ? To get to 350 games ? Again I understand the significance of the milestone but playing 300 or 355 really is just a number.
Come the end of 2025 we will most likely lose Pendles Sidey Howe Cox and possibly another veteran. That’s a massive gulf in experience going out at one time.
So unless the club is planning to play either Sidey or Pendles in the VFL for extended periods in 2025 (which defeats the purpose of them playing on really and I doubt we will do) then how do we get games into Allan and the younger players again ?
This mess we are now facing now of our own creation and could have been partially avoided had we followed Wright’s original plan.
So now to improve our draft hand we are going to have to trade out players aged 24/28 to get draft picks we can hopefully bundle up and improve our draft hand.
Unlike Geelong who manage to bring in a decent kid or younger established player yearly while staggering there veterans departures we’ve done neither
Again I’ll say it
I have no faith in your current recruitment structure

[RudeBoy]

Sadly, I tend to agree with you QM67. My only hope is that Pendles will actually be a better player next year, having fully recovered from his bicep and rib injuries, which negatively impacted his performances in the 2nd half of the season. My worry is that I've never seen him play really well in any other position other than as a midfielder. His continued presence there is likely to limit the opportunities for Allan and DeMattia, which would be disastrous.

[Pies2016]

^^^
I’m not overly critical of our position …. Yet.
The end justified the means and we still are the reigning premiers ( soon to no longer apply )
Flags are bloody hard to win and it was only 12 months ago all that experience played a big part in a finals campaign made up of three ridiculously close finishes.
POTENTIALLY, my biggest concern will be if the club doesn’t give this quality draft the attention it deserves. It won’t take much at all to accumulate a very solid draft hand with the trading out of Noble ( Suns will pay overs ) and likely, Richards. Add in a strong chance they will do a pick swap with our F1 and there’s plenty to work with on draft night.
And that’s when the balancing act begins. How much of that improved draft hand do they invest in youth versus how much they satisfy with immediate needs. It’s easy to say 50 / 50 but if you think about it, that doesn’t make much sense because effectively your not maximising either of the directions you chose to pursue. It’s like half chasing next years flag as opposed to going all in.
The draft Is where you build the core of your list and I’m hoping they focus more on the draft than what the club would have us all believe. There’s plenty of positives that come from winning flags and one of them is that it buys you the time that other clubs don’t have. We can afford to make decisions based on the medium term for a bigger gain down the track. I just hope they don’t over shoot the runway and invest to heavily on the unlikely outcome of two flags in three years. By all means, trade in a young player or two to fill an immediate need but the club can’t afford to abandon the draft along the way.
Draft for dough, trade for show.

PS - as a doomsday scenario, picture the next few years on, when most other clubs had chosen to pick the bones out of the best draft in years, while we had chosen not to actively participate. Then add to that, all our quality elder players who have since retired and then imagine what that list would like.

[BazBoy]

I watched the Dorks & Dogs last night and one thing struck me ——Youth !!!

Dorks have built a young side and may well be the makings of a top side over the years

Thing is they planned this

Are we planning a future young side

[SLORT]

We're milking the cow one last time. There's cream in them there hills! And if it fails, oh well. We'll blame Wright and have a review and make the decision...that Pendle's and Sidey will need another year...or two.

[LaurieHolden]

And in another thread not too far away, we'll be moaning about our lack of experience.

We have not had the same draft hands and as a result have not had the talent nor the draft or trade capital to dislodge those players.
Which team as it exactly right? I'll tell you, none.
This is never simply about youth, it's about your Clubs DNA and the draft hand you earn / are dealt, sprinkled with a good dose of luck.

Hawthorn looks like we did in 2022 - fresh coach, fresh game plan. 2022 probably one of the most exciting years we've followed footy outside a flag year.
Hawthorn didn't look like World beaters when they were sitting 0-5 at the start of the season. The Dogs? Well, they lack the right experience.
Hawthorn still has 6 players (to our 10) who will be over 30 come 2025. 31 y/o Winguard has just retired.
They've had 4 top picks in as many years.
2017 they scored coups with late picks https://www.draftguru.com.au/clubs/hawthorn
And post every Club in the land bar Hawthorn overlooked Jai Newcombe, they jagged him in the 2020 mid-season draft.

Ask yourself, of the modern AFL era, which teams' history would you prefer?

• Games Since Last GF Win / Games Since FG Last Appearance
  St Kilda 1310 309
  Fitzroy 1078 1078
  Carlton 655 561
  Adelaide 593 151
  North Melbourne 564 564
  Essendon 540 515
  Brisbane Lions 476 23
  Port Adelaide 454 383
  Sydney 281 47
  Hawthorn 199 199
  Bulldogs 180 69
  WCE 132 132
  Richmond 91 91
  Melbourne 72 72
  Geelong 46 46
  Collingwood 23nd.

Can we at least evolve this tired old discussion. We've played with the same dare for 2 seasons and fell short via a tough draw and injury to miss the finals.
The 2013 draft bust via injury and the cap debacle stemming from the Beams, Treloar, Grundy years is as much to blame for anything, and we sacked a coach along the way.
Collingwood despite the debacle of the late McGuire years has held its own.
2 Premierships and 2 R/U in 4 years.

Over the next 3 years ~
We'll have a minimum of 2x F/S's & NGA prospects to come onto the list. (McGuane, Roccas, Fraser, Lonie + NGAs)
We'll trade in some players we haven't thought of.
We'll jag some players from the draft, nothing surer.

[lazzadesilva]

Again taking the easy way out Pendles and Sidey can play till they are 40 and Collingwood will still get value from them.
Our biggest problem is that the younger players haven’t come on as planned or hoped. We need to be super switched on to get as much young talent as our draft picks allow.
I have said previously that I’m all for the club to gain earlier picks through trading or letting a few underperforming youngsters go. If we don’t do something proactive now, we will be left behind by the clubs that do.