#32 Travis Cloke

[watt price tully]

Why the hell should people need to choose a group?

Just because people don't believe Buckley shouldn't be sacked now doesn't mean they're all sunshine and lollypops, nor does thinking he should be make them all pessimistic 1 song tr0lls.

I don't get the need to label people into a category, most of us have varied opinions depending on the subject. I'd be very surprised if all those who self identified as members of the unhappy scrotum brigade all agreed on everything, so IMHO it's a juvenile and stupid exercise to try to perpetuate these labels.

Just think Stui we have been getting along so well lately!
And now this.
Nothing wrong with labels stui.
It happens all the time in a host of human activities.

Agree to disagree. I dislike labels because they usually generalise and force fit people into a category that they often don't fit. Some people like the labels, I don't and It grinds me when people do try to label me. That's just me.

So you're part of the anti-labelist group then

Oops I missed the iconoclast comment

[Redlight]

Why the hell should people need to choose a group?

Just because people don't believe Buckley shouldn't be sacked now doesn't mean they're all sunshine and lollypops, nor does thinking he should be make them all pessimistic 1 song tr0lls.

I don't get the need to label people into a category, most of us have varied opinions depending on the subject. I'd be very surprised if all those who self identified as members of the unhappy scrotum brigade all agreed on everything, so IMHO it's a juvenile and stupid exercise to try to perpetuate these labels.

Hear, hear. Some people seem to identify with such groups and then craft their opinions and posts to fit in with that identity.

Thereafter, everything that Buckley does must be crap, or everything that is wrong at Collingwood is down to Buckley (just an example, I'm sure it's true of some posters on the pro and con side).

I think we're all capable of a better analysis than that. It's not all black and white (sorry).

[inxs88]

The media engineering of the "devaluation of Cloke's currency" is mind boggling!

[magpieazza]

Just echoing the above posts. You should be able to express yourself without being pigeon holed and categorized....shows poor judgement and its a pathetic exercise.

...and the media generated devaluation of Clokes currency is mind boggling!!

Would it surprise anyone if Cloke came out and had a half decent 2017?
Not me!!
I would say his recapture of form would be overdue if anything.

[5 from the wing on debut]

[quote="inxs88"]The media engineering of the "devaluation of Cloke's currency" is mind boggling![/quote

It's really annoyed me this season when the media kept making him play in the twos.

And when the media forced him to not lose weight.

And when the media punched the ball away every time he had his opponent beaten.

And when the media stopped him from tackling, chasing and putting in second efforts.

[September Zeros]

The media engineering of the "devaluation of Cloke's currency" is mind boggling!

It's really annoyed me this season when the media kept making him play in the twos.

And when the media forced him to not lose weight.

And when the media punched the ball away every time he had his opponent beaten.

And when the media stopped him from tackling, chasing and putting in second efforts.

I think what in inxs is eluding to is that all of a sudden we all finding ourselves comfortable with the the idea of a pick in the 70's . Its sliding further and further out and we are swallowing it whole. Every time the pick gets pushed out we all accept the pick that was offered before it and so on and so on......

[5 from the wing on debut]

The media engineering of the "devaluation of Cloke's currency" is mind boggling!

It's really annoyed me this season when the media kept making him play in the twos.

And when the media forced him to not lose weight.

And when the media punched the ball away every time he had his opponent beaten.

And when the media stopped him from tackling, chasing and putting in second efforts.

I think what in inxs is eluding to is that all of a sudden we all finding ourselves comfortable with the the idea of a pick in the 70's . Its sliding further and further out and we are swallowing it whole. Every time the pick gets pushed out we all accept the pick that was offered before it and so on and so on......

Yes, I understand that but my point is that the media does not set a trade value, the clubs do. There is only one suitor for Cloke, so his value is minimal. If you were the only buyer in the world for a particular product and the vendor was keen to sell, why would you offer much to buy? The trade price is set by Cloke's performance as a player which is the only basis that determines what a club is prepared to pay to recruit him. What the members of this forum accept or do not accept is irrelevant to what the Dogs are prepared to pay.

[bally12]

Bulldogs have picked 54. I think that's minimum spend for Clokey. If they don't give that up, I say play hard-ball and shop him around to all other clubs. If that fails, then hold him to his contract. Enough of playing the nice guy. Cloke can play when he decides to pull his finger out. The GWS game is proof enough. He's a durable player that's hardly missed a game. We've paid him more than handsomely over his entire career, and the back-handed cheap shots at our club by suddenly praising the Dogs and their playing style is a bit rich. And the media can get stuffed too.

[CarringbushCigar]

Bulldogs have picked 54. I think that's minimum spend for Clokey. If they don't give that up, I say play hard-ball and shop him around to all other clubs. If that fails, then hold him to his contract. Enough of playing the nice guy. Cloke can play when he decides to pull his finger out. The GWS game is proof enough. He's a durable player that's hardly missed a game. We've paid him more than handsomely over his entire career, and the back-handed cheap shots at our club by suddenly praising the Dogs and their playing style is a bit rich. And the media can get stuffed too.

Well that would be a fitting close to the most inglorious period in our history.

To have a stand-off between Bucks and Cloke all year - how fitting !

[Redlight]

Bulldogs have picked 54. I think that's minimum spend for Clokey. If they don't give that up, I say play hard-ball and shop him around to all other clubs. If that fails, then hold him to his contract. Enough of playing the nice guy. Cloke can play when he decides to pull his finger out. The GWS game is proof enough. He's a durable player that's hardly missed a game. We've paid him more than handsomely over his entire career, and the back-handed cheap shots at our club by suddenly praising the Dogs and their playing style is a bit rich. And the media can get stuffed too.

I'm with you. Players we sack, I wish them well (within reason). Players who choose to leave? They can get stuffed.

I see him recently talking about 'playing under a coach who believes in him', for God's sake.
Travis, your performances are on you. When you're 15 metres out, dead in front, do you think Luke Beveridge is going to run out and take the kick for you? Do you think the Dog's fans will love your regardless?

You're the problem Trav. You won't get better until you face up to it.

So now he's willing to play for less?

So, now he's willing to lose weight and play a different role?

F%^k you Travis.

F%^k you.

[Presti35]

Pick 71, surely that cant be correct. I know theres things probably going on under the table with money and contracts that us little supporters dont know about, but pick 71??

Again, I understand its going to free up a lot of cap space and brings us into the free agency game/other trades, but pick 71??

How do we go from Lin Jong, to pick 30-something, to pick 50-something to pick 71??

We must be able to get better value!!??!!

[qldmagpie67]

I must be missing something in all this. Maybe I drank to many red wines over the winter and am a haze but can people explain this to me.

Cloke for pick 71 ?
Pick 71 is worth exactly 29 points which is hardly going to help us in any potential father son bidding. (Which could drop down further if the Lions receive a priority pick as they appear to be getting and any other compensation that's not on the table as yet)
There's been dozen of players traded between clubs over recent times that don't have the resume of Cloke and they have returned far better trade results.
So how I see it is as follows
They stump up pick in the 30's which would give us draft points of between 446 & 629 to use or they get stuffed
We then shop him around to a club that will pay our price
If that fails we sit him down and say righto so your prepared to change the way you play and play for less money hey ? So here's the challenge you play for us for $250k this season with a option of 2 further seasons at improved money (say $350k a season) prove to us you will do whatever it takes to fit into the role the team needs you to fill. We will give you a minimum of the first 10 games to show us you can do this. If you do it then you get a new contract with us the balls in your court. Don't like that then that's fine we will play you in the VFL all season and let's see you find a club in 2018 when we play you as a full time ruck sharing the load with whoever keeping your game time to and 40 minutes a week.
I'm over this rubbish of us being hel to ransom by the Cloke's
Remember 2012 Demir held us over a barrel all season ?
Well guess what mate you signed a contract then that gives us the right to pay you half your wages from previous years if you fail to meet the criteria set down which you did. So now the balls in our court either we get what we want in regards to a decent draft pick we can use for Brown or Daicos or we send your to anther club or you play here or spend the season in the VFL

[think positive]

I must be missing something in all this. Maybe I drank to many red wines over the winter and am a haze but can people explain this to me.

Cloke for pick 71 ?
Pick 71 is worth exactly 29 points which is hardly going to help us in any potential father son bidding. (Which could drop down further if the Lions receive a priority pick as they appear to be getting and any other compensation that's not on the table as yet)
There's been dozen of players traded between clubs over recent times that don't have the resume of Cloke and they have returned far better trade results.
So how I see it is as follows
They stump up pick in the 30's which would give us draft points of between 446 & 629 to use or they get stuffed
We then shop him around to a club that will pay our price
If that fails we sit him down and say righto so your prepared to change the way you play and play for less money hey ? So here's the challenge you play for us for $250k this season with a option of 2 further seasons at improved money (say $350k a season) prove to us you will do whatever it takes to fit into the role the team needs you to fill. We will give you a minimum of the first 10 games to show us you can do this. If you do it then you get a new contract with us the balls in your court. Don't like that then that's fine we will play you in the VFL all season and let's see you find a club in 2018 when we play you as a full time ruck sharing the load with whoever keeping your game time to and 40 minutes a week.
I'm over this rubbish of us being hel to ransom by the Cloke's
Remember 2012 Demir held us over a barrel all season ?
Well guess what mate you signed a contract then that gives us the right to pay you half your wages from previous years if you fail to meet the criteria set down which you did. So now the balls in our court either we get what we want in regards to a decent draft pick we can use for Brown or Daicos or we send your to anther club or you play here or spend the season in the VFL

Great post

[Culprit]

The way it's going one could suggest we are going to give the dogs a pick to take Cloke.

[Haff]

I must be missing something in all this. Maybe I drank to many red wines over the winter and am a haze but can people explain this to me.

Cloke for pick 71 ?
Pick 71 is worth exactly 29 points which is hardly going to help us in any potential father son bidding. (Which could drop down further if the Lions receive a priority pick as they appear to be getting and any other compensation that's not on the table as yet)
There's been dozen of players traded between clubs over recent times that don't have the resume of Cloke and they have returned far better trade results.
So how I see it is as follows
They stump up pick in the 30's which would give us draft points of between 446 & 629 to use or they get stuffed
We then shop him around to a club that will pay our price
If that fails we sit him down and say righto so your prepared to change the way you play and play for less money hey ? So here's the challenge you play for us for $250k this season with a option of 2 further seasons at improved money (say $350k a season) prove to us you will do whatever it takes to fit into the role the team needs you to fill. We will give you a minimum of the first 10 games to show us you can do this. If you do it then you get a new contract with us the balls in your court. Don't like that then that's fine we will play you in the VFL all season and let's see you find a club in 2018 when we play you as a full time ruck sharing the load with whoever keeping your game time to and 40 minutes a week.
I'm over this rubbish of us being hel to ransom by the Cloke's
Remember 2012 Demir held us over a barrel all season ?
Well guess what mate you signed a contract then that gives us the right to pay you half your wages from previous years if you fail to meet the criteria set down which you did. So now the balls in our court either we get what we want in regards to a decent draft pick we can use for Brown or Daicos or we send your to anther club or you play here or spend the season in the VFL

Great post

One issue, he's contracted to us so can't play for less and you're forgetting we lose his salary if he's gone. Given he played one good game, I'd rather be done with his salary and a nothing pick so we can afford a youngster (WHE).

We missed our opportunity to trade Cloke for something 2 years ago.

Happy to be done with him and move on.