#11 Daniel McStay

[stui magpie]

Without doubt it's a massive blow to our forward set up in 2024. Nevertheless, we will find a solution. I suspect both Kreuger and Johnson will get more opportunities now. But, we should all be hoping that the giant, Alex Conden, hits a dead end in his NBL plans and takes up our offer of a spot on our list mid year.

Not an option for 2024 though, is he? And not a similar player to mcStay.
If we want a 210cm marking target we could just leave Cox in the goal square with Cameron doing the ruck. That's not consistent with the game plan, Fly likes mobile tall forwards who can create opportunities for the smalls if they don't mark it.
Freddy and Ash have the box seats, but reef and begg have to be in the conversation.

[Said by Zed]

Felt truly gut punched when the news and extent of Dan’s injury was confirmed…felt terrible for the big guy…however if we had to lose anyone this far out from round 1 (or round zero wetf that is), I’m glad it was him.

Now before any of you itchy trigger single finger typing types out there spaz out, let me explain.

Although Dan’s important to our set up he’s probably the least critical.
* He missed practically half the season last year and we still finished on top (relatively comfortably in the end).
* In the games he did play he didn’t dominate or was he the deciding factor in any.
* He played well in the finals but didn’t play in the Granny, and we still won.

We still have several options and quite a few levers to pull, and as others have said time for Ash and/or Kroogz to step up. I think they will shine Similarly, it may a be a smaller, quick, pressuring forward set up with the likes of McInnes and Begg getting a run.

And, who knows Karma may kick in and he might experience a total reversal of fortune and be a late inclusion in Grand Final 2024, kicking 4 and securing no.17 for the Mighty Pies! Now wouldn’t that be perfect

[WhyPhilWhy?]

[quote="Said by Zed"]And, who knows Karma may kick in and he might experience a total reversal of fortune and be a late inclusion in Grand Final 2024, kicking 4 and securing no.17 for the Mighty Pies! Now wouldn’t that be perfect

[Magpietothemax]

^Just emphasizes the incredible nature of our GF victory. We won not only without Dan McStay, but also without Nathan Murphy for three quarters, ie one man down for 75% of the game.
That victory was just such an extraordinary and awe inspiring achievement. And yes, Dan McStay coming back for the 2024 GF and kicking 4 in our 17th would be another pivotal lifetime moment.

[Newelly]

I said this to my mates as soon as we had to move ovals to Vic Park we are increasing our risk of injury. That ground surface is not fit enough for local footy sessions.

And for awhile the ground at our regular training ground was said to be too hard and a contributor. Albeit that was a rumour but I never heard it confirmed officially. Though is that considered to be a reason they are resurfacing it currently?

[Rex]

Like many other posters I’ll miss McStay, but fortunately we do have options. Johnson has some sublime skills and Krueger…well he could be anything if he can stay upright for a couple of matches in a row. McInnes is the one for me. In his last ten games in the VFL he averaged 14 possessions, 4.7 marks and kicked 2.3 goals. With another pre-seasons, a few more kgs and the chance to find his rhythm in the seniors he could be a star. Remember, he hasn’t even turned 21 yet.
I think our future is still bright.

[Charlie Oneeye]

On the bright side, we have the whole pre-season to sort out the best McStay solution.

I keep hearing Krueger, but me thinks he is neither mobile enough nor strong enough against the best Defenders/back lines in the AFL.
He is good, but 'just missed by that much' says Mr Smart.

He needs to hone the role and with a little more composure. Bash and crash and half a minute recovering after every contest isn't really effective apart for the odd highlight, rooted before the final siren, and does not give you a long shelf life.

Johnson Omitted round 19 to make way for Checkers. McStay also playing.
Came back in round 21,
Out again for round 22.. Frampton In, (Cox not playing)I think more for team balance.

And for the Finals, Johnson was injured, Frampton played the GF.. maybe he would of anyway on Andrews.

My take :

1. Johnson
2. McInnes
3. Cox Forward/ruck. Frampton off the bench.
4. Frampton
5. Krueger

[themonk]

Time to develop Begg, big and mobile.

[Take_a_Screamer]

Yes, Ash Johnson is favoured according to general opinion...

The obvious contender to replace McStay as pre-season standout emerges
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/12/04/ ... t-emerges/

This article goes a bit deeper...

Replace, replenish or reposition: Who fills Dan McStay’s role at Collingwood?
https://www.zerohanger.com/replace-repl ... od-146205/

JDG and Coxy are away at the moment and not training with the group

[think better]

I reckon Ash could be like a Brereton type CHF rather than a Dan McStay type.

A bit more mobile and playing up and down the ground - Not the biggest, pack breaking or bullocking type.

[warburton lad]

Good afternoon Mr Think Better.

I agree that Ash Johnson would not be the Dan McStay replacement in terms of bullocking style however, I am inclined to compare Ash Johnson more to Chris Tarrant than Dermott Brereton.
There was a year in the early 2000's when Tarrant was mentored by Terry Daniher and he had a wonderful season where he ran tirelessly around the forward line and was very hard to match up on.
The beauty of Ash Johnson is that he is highly mobile, is a good pack mark and is a deadly shot on goal. I would be hoping/expecting him to exceed 50 goals if he plays every Home and Away game in 2023.

Occasionally, Cox or Cameron may rest forward and this will alter the dynamic to three calls and three smalls- this is not such a bad thing!

If we can introduce more mids like Macrae, McInness, Carmichael, Allen, we may have the luxury of De Goey as a forward on occasion...

The loss of McStay is undesirable, but also presents opportunities for experimentation and creativity in the use of our listed players.
I think Teakle will be one of the SSP selections: 203cms and 102 kgs is a big unit (and he is very mobile)...

[LaurieHolden]

^
Ash Johnson might well appear mobile, but hasn't shown it consistently.
His leading patterns and repeat efforts would need to improve dramatically to be any chance of kicking 35+ and establish an AFL career.
There's no comparison to McStay that can be made between the two. It's like comparing an inside mid to and outside mid.

The body of evidence as to why McStay was targetted then recruited has not been able to be realised for us to objectively measure his impact. Safe to say a team with McStay and Mihocek as big bodied forward anchors was going to improve our forward line, nothing surer.
McStay wasn't a speculative MSD pick, he was a targetted recruit.
Those saying they couldn't see it must reflect his impact to the team started to materilse from R18 during his 14 game, injury interrupted season.

[Pies2016]

McStay was a workhorse and an endurance athlete. He was always there for repeat efforts up and down the ground and had an appetite for contact. The only way the likes of Johnson or McInnes could pick up his slack is for Miochek to play the McStay role and have Johnson / McInnes play from deep in the square.
Miochek couldn’t believe his luck when the club signed McStay because finally there was someone else to share the grunt work up the ground. Two years on and not much will have changed for Miochek. Maybe a massive pre season from Krueger ( and some luck ) could yet help Miochek out but the challenge remains to find another player who can contribute for four quarters further up the ground.
Conversely, finding players to jump at the ball from the goal square is the least of our problems.

[mgh3536]

On the evidence thus far Johnson does not apply pressure makes too many mistakes, he isn’t 19…he can do the exceptional now and again.

McInnes, begg, steene are all 20/21 and have shown a bit and would suggest have significant upside in a system based team.

I have more hope that one of these 3 will continue to develop, with Johnson at 26 I think we have the evidence ?

[Pies2016]

On the evidence thus far Johnson does not apply pressure makes too many mistakes, he isn’t 19…he can do the exceptional now and again.

McInnes, begg, steene are all 20/21 and have shown a bit and would suggest have significant upside in a system based team.

I have more hope that one of these 3 will continue to develop, with Johnson at 26 I think we have the evidence ?

On face value, I tend to agree. What will be happening, is that the players you mentioned ( and I will throw in Krueger and a possible PSS selection) will all know they need a personal best pre season to be on the short list to replace McStay in the team ( as a number more than his position ) It’s important that clubs reward hard work on the track, assuming the skill set is also up to scratch. As supporters we don’t see that mid week hard work until the teams come out on Thursday night. I’m happy to keep an open mind about McStays replacement but you can guarantee the club won’t reward anyone who doesn’t do the hard yards during this pre season.