George Pell has been charged

[KenH]

^

Binge watching episodes of what? The Shit? What's that little brown thing?

I was wondering the same Stui!

[think positive]

^

Binge watching episodes of what? The Shit? What's that little brown thing?

That's weird! On my iPad it's a red 100 sign!

The 100!

Up to 1-13 now!

[Tannin]

If he is found guilty, what do you think will change? Will the flock thin? And will they give up on religion or go elsewhere?.

1: Not much
2: It already did
3: The former.

For all the bad things that are happening in Australia, there are some good things as well. The 21st Century collapse of religious belief - as demonstrated by the recent census - is a notable example.

Pell and his cronies should be accorded a great deal of the credit for this. It matters not at all whether Pell himself is found guilty or innocent: the crimes of the ruthless organisation he headed, and the transparent lack of remorse or compassion he and many other leaders have shown in response to it, has long since done its work.

[HAL]

Probably not.

[stui magpie]

If he is found guilty, what do you think will change? Will the flock thin? And will they give up on religion or go elsewhere?.

1: Not much
2: It already did
3: The former.

For all the bad things that are happening in Australia, there are some good things as well. The 21st Century collapse of religious belief - as demonstrated by the recent census - is a notable example.

Pell and his cronies should be accorded a great deal of the credit for this. It matters not at all whether Pell himself is found guilty or innocent: the crimes of the ruthless organisation he headed, and the transparent lack of remorse or compassion he and many other leaders have shown in response to it, has long since done its work.

No doubt that's part of it. Another part in my opinion is the growing lack of respect for authority. The Catholic church, by nature, is formal, structured and authoritarian. None of these things appeal to the younger generations. Hell, they don't appeal to me.

Where Christianity has been growing is in the more niche, fringe churches but the growth is no where near enough to offset the loss to the traditional ones.

[Tannin]

^ Yep to all of that.

[David]

Part of a post that was split into the other thread:

On the original topic, I have a clear view of why child abuse happened in the Catholic Church. It touches partly on Ireland, partly on repressed homosexuality converted into holy orders, partly on priestly celibacy, and partly on a simple failure of leadership to recognise that a vast system was corrupt. They were not the first and they will not be the last people in a given institution to fail this test. I knew that system well, having at least two Christian Brothers in my wider extended family and having been to a Catholic school.

[Member 7167]

Part of a post that was split into the other thread:

On the original topic, I have a clear view of why child abuse happened in the Catholic Church. It touches partly on Ireland, partly on repressed homosexuality converted into holy orders, partly on priestly celibacy, and partly on a simple failure of leadership to recognise that a vast system was corrupt. They were not the first and they will not be the last people in a given institution to fail this test. I knew that system well, having at least two Christian Brothers in my wider extended family and having been to a Catholic school.

I believe another factor was the grooming by parents for their children to become either priest, nun or brother. I would have to say that these were not the brightest children in many cases but the ones that were perceived to be a little bit different. I can remember as a child hearing parents say that one of their children was going to join the church.

As such the group was tainted to some extent simply by the types of individuals who joined.

[stui magpie]

^

Well, back in the day, people who were "different" were often diagnosed with mental illness and institutionalised, others were sent to sheltered workshops.

The parents no doubt thought they were doing the right thing by sending their miscreant child off to the church where they thought they would be looked after.

You just made me recall a bloke from when I was a kid in the bush. i don't know what his condition was, even in hindsight, but he was clearly intellectually challenged and NQR in some other way.

He was a renowned snowdropper and peeping tom and kids were warned to stay clear of him.

His nickname was "the reverend".

[Morrigu]

Hmmm maybe it depends on what area of Ireland you are talking about

Such was the control and influence of the RC church in all aspects of both community ( including Government) and personal lives becoming a priest was seen as a status symbol - many Irish mothers ( well down South where my mob are) encouraged and were incredibly proud of their sons who "answered the calling" - the son who was a priest got higher billing than that of say a doctor or a lawyer.

Girls who were thought to be unlikely to make a good marriage were encouraged to become nuns and many then took to nursing or teaching - never quite the same pride though - but that's Irish mothers' and their sons - my old Ma still suffers from it!!

[swoop42]

I get the feeling Pell might be innocent of these charges.

Given his age priests of his era have long now been exposed by allegations, police investigation and subsequent court findings or the practices of the Catholic Church uncovered in which "problem priests" were transferred from one diocese to another or to some form of treatment retreat.

I don't think the latter at least has ever been attached to Pell.

While it's likely the people making the allegations were victims I wonder if it's possible there perpetrators never faced the consequences because they had since died and they are looking for someone, anyone to be held to account and Pell as the most prominent Australian Catholic figure is as good as any.

Given we are dealing with some likely damaged people with complex mental health issues it's not all that unlikely a scenario.

Of course given the amount of victims across the years it's possible a handful could have a vindictive enough nature and they're looking for compensation or for the wrong person to be held accountable.

Pell no doubt is guilty like a lot in the Catholic Church of turning a blind eye to the allegations surrounding some priests and not doing enough to protect the children in there care but whether he personally assaulted children will now be left to the courts I guess.

P.S- Given how important the practice of confession is within the Catholic Church and how ones sins confessed are absolved before the eyes of God it's really no surprise that we were left with the situation that developed.

[stui magpie]

^

I also tend to think he's innocent, but that doesn't really matter, his career is over. There's plenty on a witch hunt and he's in a no win situation. he's been tried and convicted by the court of (minority) popular opinion. The court will either confirm that or disagree in which case the same people will label it a travesty and typical right wing cover up.

[regan is true fullback]

I have been called a communist and a "gal" by the the Philippine Catholic Right, but the truth remains, these people do not just hate gay people, they hate sex itself. How could they not, when they glorify celibacy and immaculate conception. Sex and childbirth are messy and ugly. Celibacy is pure and sacred. Hence their jihad against contraception, single mums, divorce, abortion gay marriage and even sex itself, where it does not lead to conception. A messy means to a glorious end, except of course when the child is out of the womb and living in poverty, then it is someone else's problem.

[Tannin]

these people do not just hate gay people, they hate sex itself. How could they not, when they glorify celibacy and immaculate conception. Sex and childbirth are messy and ugly. Celibacy is pure and sacred. Hence their jihad against contraception, single mums, divorce, abortion gay marriage and even sex itself, where it does not lead to conception.

And if there was a tedious, pointless, entirely pleasure-free way to achieve conception, they'd be 100% in favour of it.

[stui magpie]

^

if every sperm is sacred and masturbation is a sin, DTM would be a mass murderer in the same league as Pol Pot.