Things that make you go.......WTF?

[Tannin]

Isn't it funny... when Morrigu was away Tannin was all blowjobs and Miley Cyrus. Now he is all "don't post important stuff that only you and I would care about Morrigu, the plebs won't understand"

^ Get a clue.

The blowjobs posts were in response the the excruciating boredom of listening to David arguing with King Monkey arguing with David over the religious significance of a VB advertisment in a multi-cultural pluralist society and the validity of individualising group social observations and the consequent effect on the public perception and lived reality of popular stereotypes. (Think "David, I am quite amazed at your inability to see any other point of view other than your own", only for 117 pages.)

As for Miley Cyrus, that was Swoop. My response to his post was as follows:

Does nothing for me. Nothing at all. If I wanted to turn gay I'd go for a real boy, not a narcissistic pretend one with too much makeup and a distracting Seedsman haircut.

Which reminds me ... I hear you are a bit of a goer yoursef ..... are you free?

[HAL]

Not a thing?

[think positive]

[Nick - Pie Man]

Texans taking the piss yeah? They can't really be that stupid surely

[King Monkey]

I agree.

Blah blah blah, some more irrelevent shit........

That's a far more entertaining and balanced discussion!!

[King Monkey]

Excuse my ignorance regarding the Ivory "industry"........
Is there any loss of quality in aged beasts' tusks??
Would it be viable to track down old and/or diseased animals to obtain the product??

[stui magpie]

Excuse my ignorance regarding the Ivory "industry"........
Is there any loss of quality in aged beasts' tusks??
Would it be viable to track down old and/or diseased animals to obtain the product??

There is and was as I understand it, a legal industry in Africa run out of game reserves.

Wardens protected the animals from poachers, but needed to do occasional culls when the population got too big for the area to support. That ivory was collected and legitimately sold to help fund the game reserve and pay for the wardens.

that only works in those places where there's some semblance of civil law, a single armed warden getting paid peanuts is no match for a gang of thugs armed with AK47's looking to get rich quick.

Where there is civil war, as in the article Morrigu posted, it's an easy way to get money and meat, both needed to sustain a rebellion. The continent is largely $@&^# and being systematically exploited by wealthy western interests where they can, and ruined by infighting where they can't get in........yet.

[3.14159]

ANY ivory obtained after 1947 is illegal in most of the civilised world.
Ivory pre that date is legit.
Age/value of the tusk is about the size and species.
Ivory comes from hippos, whales, walrus and even elephants and is valued accordingly.
Narwhal is the most prized of the pre 47 ivory but like I said, no point killing it if nobody can buy it.
Allowing all of the above to ripe old age is probably a wise move.

... mastodon and mammoth can command significant prices because the quality of the ivory is still very good and can be legally carved.
(for obvious reasons).

[stui magpie]

ANY ivory obtained after 1947 is illegal in most of the civilised world.
Ivory pre that date is legit.
Age/value of the tusk is about the size and species.
Ivory comes from hippos, whales, walrus and even elephants and is valued accordingly.
Narwhal is the most prized of the pre 47 ivory but like I said, no point killing it if nobody can buy it.
Allowing all of the above to ripe old age is probably a wise move.

... mastodon and mammoth can command significant prices because the quality of the ivory is still very good and can be legally carved.
(for obvious reasons).

Sorry mate but Wiki disagrees. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_trade

There's nothing there I could see about 1947, but there's reference to Ivory being approved for legal sale as recently as the late 90's early 2000.

You got a reference for that anywhere?

Edit: Don't worry, I think I found it. It's a British / EU law or restriction. CITES is the mob that has the treaty that covers the rest of the signatories and they can approve legal ivory harvested after 1947.

http://www.cites.org/eng/news/pr/2008/0 ... vory.shtml

[3.14159]

There is and was as I understand it, a legal industry in Africa run out of game reserves.
Wardens protected the animals from poachers, but needed to do occasional culls when the population got too big for the area to support. That ivory was collected and legitimately sold to help fund the game reserve and pay for the wardens.

As I understand it, shooters to pay big $ to hunt and kill/cull excess elephants but aren't allowed to keep the tusks.

[5150]

Isn't it funny... when Morrigu was away Tannin was all blowjobs and Miley Cyrus. Now he is all "don't post important stuff that only you and I would care about Morrigu, the plebs won't understand"

^ Get a clue.

The blowjobs posts were in response the the excruciating boredom of listening to David arguing with King Monkey arguing with David over the religious significance of a VB advertisment in a multi-cultural pluralist society and the validity of individualising group social observations and the consequent effect on the public perception and lived reality of popular stereotypes. (Think "David, I am quite amazed at your inability to see any other point of view other than your own", only for 117 pages.)

As for Miley Cyrus, that was Swoop. My response to his post was as follows:

Does nothing for me. Nothing at all. If I wanted to turn gay I'd go for a real boy, not a narcissistic pretend one with too much makeup and a distracting Seedsman haircut.

Which reminds me ... I hear you are a bit of a goer yoursef ..... are you free?

Are you referring to me as a Middle Eastern homo?

Meh, I've been called worse.

[Morrigu]

WHEN THE BUYING STOPS THE KILLING CAN TOO!!

A quick glance at a few of the animals on the critically endangered list

1. Elephants killed for useless trinkets for stupid humans, for hocus pocus chinese medicines and as an aphrodisiac - get some viagra you limpards!!!

2. Tigers: killed for their skins which "decorate" the homes of the elite and their bones which are ground down to make traditional asian medicines -"tonic" wines. And of course as an aphrodisiac - tiger penis is used in love potions such as tiger soup. I repeat.................Viagra limpards!

3. Rhinos: killed for their horns due to its "supposed healing power" and for an aphrodisiac is now a 'status symbol" (especially in Vietnam - hmm maybe that's why I didn't like the country).
It's keratin - if you think it is magic you have your very own supply - bite your finger nails!!! And if you can't get it up - again..........get some viagra!

4. Gorillas: killed for bushmeat as the wealthy elite consider it to be "prestigious" or for their body parts, which are used in medicine and as 'magical charms"

And who are the top demand countries: China, Vietnam, Thailand and the United States.

[stui magpie]

^

Actually, I thought I read that Japan was one of the largest buyers of Ivory. they also like eating whales for research so oh well.

The rest, I agree. The old "traditional medicine" routine is utter BS, Stop the demand and sale, you stop the killing, but risk factor is that if african governments cant sell legal ivory obtained by natural death or controlled culling, what incentive do they have to put in place conservationist measures other than altruistic reasons which don't put food on the table?

Not justifying it, you've been to Africa I haven't. Thoughts?

[swoop42]

Sadly for these animals they not only reside in countries where human life is cheap the major buyers in china and other asian areas are the same.

If human life is cheap then animal life is of no importance at all to the majority of these people.

[Morrigu]

^

Actually, I thought I read that Japan was one of the largest buyers of Ivory. they also like eating whales for research so oh well.

The rest, I agree. The old "traditional medicine" routine is utter BS, Stop the demand and sale, you stop the killing, but risk factor is that if african governments cant sell legal ivory obtained by natural death or controlled culling, what incentive do they have to put in place conservationist measures other than altruistic reasons which don't put food on the table?

Not justifying it, you've been to Africa I haven't. Thoughts?

Well conservation provides jobs as rangers and guides (roles that many former poachers now hold) for locals who in turn educate and teach the next generation of " would be poachers" and provide them with an alternative way to feed their families. From what I have seen this also provides education to the local communities specifically the children.

Parks and reserves need equipment, they need food, shelter and services which provide employment and income to the local community.

Why do people visit Africa? For the animals - the elephants, the rhinos, the lions, the cheetahs, the mountain gorillas etc etc. will the tourists come if all that is left is animals fenced in like a zoo? Nope - can see that at home!

The beauty and appeal of Africa is the safari - the chance to see these magnificent creatures in their natural habitat - I can assure you it is breathtaking to behold!

Not that I am suggesting that all tourism is good (trophy hunters ) and without doubt there are downsides BUT and I don't have a source - if you take for example Namibia I recall when we were there reading that tourism contributes around 15% of GDP and Namibia is not yet the draw card of say Botswana or Tanzania or South Africa for that matter. Look what happened to Zimbabwe when Mugabe took the reins and the tourist industry collapsed.

In Etosha the staff at all the camps inside the park were locals - there isn't a lot of industry or other options for employment so if conservation fails and the animals of Etosha disappear - there will be no employment, no income and really not much hope for the local communities.

There is much more to be gained from conservation and from the preservation of biodiversity than altruism - just a shame greedy stupid humans either don't get or just don't care!