Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

eddiesmith wrote:

woftam wrote:

eddiesmith wrote: I think he is worth 5 years at about 750-850k building up to that 5th year

For all the angst that seems to come out every time he is out of contract and the hate of David, surely everyone would prefer to lock him away for 5 years and not have to worry about it untill 2017???

You are entitled to your opinion, but that reinforces another point, Travis isnt really putting people offside, most of those who are starting to turn against him have never been his biggest fans, some others have often taken shots over the years, were leading the chorus of calling him soft in his early days, could never take a contested mark (Funny how things change when they bulk up)

Travis isnt holding anyone up, I believe about the only other player who hasnt agreed to terms is Ben Reid? Seems they havent had any issues signing up the rest of the team whilst Clokey takes his time.

Also disagree with the last comments, he has never done one early, he is taking a pay cut on his worth and probably would accept something similar to the other top players at the club it was the time that held everything up initially then the president headed overseas so guess its got another month of nothing happening...

Lets not forget he got pretty well screwed by Collingwood a few years back when they got him to sign hours before his value probably jumped by a 100k or so...

Paying Cloke around $800,000 would make him the highest paid player at the club. Swan & Pendles should be on far more than him. Swan signed last year for a reported $650,000. If the club agree to that figure then they need a good foot up the backside.

750,000 actually, he was on 650,000 and got a payrise. Basically I would pay him the same as those big names, but then by year 4-5 when he is a vet then he gets the extra 100,000 or so, why not?

2005 - 10 goals 16 behinds
2006 - 6 goals 12 behinds
2007 - 39 goals 39 behinds
2008 - 40 goals 25 behinds
2009 - 22 goals 26 behinds
2010 - 38 goals 40 behinds
2011 - 69 goals 48 behinds
2012 - 35 goals 20 behinds

1 year where he has kicked 50 goals +
That doesn't warrant the money being discussed here. In fact far from it.
Swan has 3 Copelands & a Brownlow. Why the hell should Cloke be on the same dollars?

annewilo wrote:

rocketronnie wrote:

annewilo wrote: So 85% on this board and the club agree in affect with this statement, why can't Travis Cloke see the same?

Because industrially as an employee he has a right to try to improve his position. Period. He has a right to do that without being demonised for it.
He has rights get used to it.

Agreed, if he had something to bargain with, like bags of goals for bags of money. Why so loyal to someone who hasnt been playing so well. These are key questions that don't seem to be answered by the two people who wish to keep him!

I do wish to keep him & Ronnie is right, he has a right to get what he can. But the club also has a right to say sod off if he asks too much. Too much that would put other players contracts at risk. I hope he stays but the terms need to be fair to both parties.

I think most of us want to keep him but not at the ridiculous numbers being bandied around or at the expense of other players.

The other disappointing aspect of this whole saga is that even if he was to sign now he would have a hard time winning over the supporters. The vitriol being directed at Cloke is increasing every week. We were giving it to him, supporters all around us were giving it him. Usually when supporters have a crack at a pies players someone will jump to their defence, this was absent today in regards to Cloke.

annewilo wrote:

eddiesmith wrote:

annewilo wrote: Agreement in terms if different than signing. A lot can happen in the commercial world between the two. We've been lucky so far but the drums are beating.

OBrien
Reid
Beams

to name but a few have not signed. I know for a fact that there are in principle deals being floated but are subject to various things happening. No player will sign until they know what is happening with Cloke. The club won't and the player won't. The club because they have no ability to close deals over the cap, so they wait for the impasse to change and the players because they too will want to know how much money is left if Cloke should go. So meanwhile, other clubs with huge cheque books loom. This whole thing needs to go away now.

At the same time if Reid or O'Brien said they wanted to leave then they have the money for Cloke

He could sign for less, then one of those leaves anyway and suddenly we have extra in the cap, which will then probably see Daisy wanting a pay rise next year

He has always waited till last, we will likely lose a couple of players this year like Jolly and Tarrant to retirement, that frees up a bit of money as well, everyone will know better in October so why not just wait?

You're quite brutal on wanting to get rid of some pretty good players who are doing ok and yet you want to keep Cloke who is not. Why is that? Pretty harsh I think.

Every week you read how bad Reid, O'Brien and Jolly were, how Jolly can't run, mark, jump, do anything

But I don't want to get rid of them, just one of those 2 defenders might leave anyway, if they do and Cloke stays no doubt he will get blamed But they might simply want to move on

As for the older 2, I would be very suprised if either of them played on next year, Jolly is struggling a bit and Tarrant has been injured most of the year and really if we want to keep Reid and Brown then there really is no more need for him

In 2010 we had the Mick Malthouse saga which was hugely damaging .

In 2012 we have the never ending Travis Cloke saga which shows no signs of ending . I thought the club would learn from their mistakes .

I bet Hawthorn will sign up Lance Franklin long before his contract expires at the end of 2013

makri wrote:I think most of us want to keep him but not at the ridiculous numbers being bandied around or at the expense of other players.

The other disappointing aspect of this whole saga is that even if he was to sign now he would have a hard time winning over the supporters. The vitriol being directed at Cloke is increasing every week. We were giving it to him, supporters all around us were giving it him. Usually when supporters have a crack at a pies players someone will jump to their defence, this was absent today in regards to Cloke.

Yep, it's happening where I sit as well. No one jumps to his defence. I dont think I've ever experienced anything like it. The closest would have to be Peter Moore during 1982.

He would have to sign now and carry us to the flag to turn it around. I dont hold much hope of him doing either of those things.

Doc63 wrote:

makri wrote:I think most of us want to keep him but not at the ridiculous numbers being bandied around or at the expense of other players.

The other disappointing aspect of this whole saga is that even if he was to sign now he would have a hard time winning over the supporters. The vitriol being directed at Cloke is increasing every week. We were giving it to him, supporters all around us were giving it him. Usually when supporters have a crack at a pies players someone will jump to their defence, this was absent today in regards to Cloke.

Yep, it's happening where I sit as well. No one jumps to his defence. I dont think I've ever experienced anything like it. The closest would have to be Peter Moore during 1982.

He would have to sign now and carry us to the flag to turn it around. I dont hold much hope of him doing either of those things.

Are you suggesting the climate of hysteria and anger that has been cultivated around this issue is now making his position at the club untenable even if he wants to sign?

rocketronnie wrote:

Doc63 wrote:

makri wrote:I think most of us want to keep him but not at the ridiculous numbers being bandied around or at the expense of other players.

The other disappointing aspect of this whole saga is that even if he was to sign now he would have a hard time winning over the supporters. The vitriol being directed at Cloke is increasing every week. We were giving it to him, supporters all around us were giving it him. Usually when supporters have a crack at a pies players someone will jump to their defence, this was absent today in regards to Cloke.

Yep, it's happening where I sit as well. No one jumps to his defence. I dont think I've ever experienced anything like it. The closest would have to be Peter Moore during 1982.

He would have to sign now and carry us to the flag to turn it around. I dont hold much hope of him doing either of those things.

Are you suggesting the climate of hysteria and anger that has been cultivated around this issue is now making his position at the club untenable even if he wants to sign?

I dont think his position at the club would be untenable. That would be for the playing group to decide.

But I believe that he has lost the respect of a lot of the supporter base (going by comments made at the last few games), and I dont think he will win that back just by signing.

Brian from Mulgrave wrote:In 2010 we had the Mick Malthouse saga which was hugely damaging .

In 2012 we have the never ending Travis Cloke saga which shows no signs of ending . I thought the club would learn from their mistakes .

I bet Hawthorn will sign up Lance Franklin long before his contract expires at the end of 2013

The club cant force a pen into his hand Brian.

And Damir Cloke doesn't manage Buddy, so I imagine that he'll probably be staying at Hawthorn, without it dragging on like a season of Days of our Lives.

Ultimately the power to end this today is in the club's hands as it always has been. If they had a mind to that is. I think they have as much responsibility as the Clokes in this and certainly have done little to manage the hysteria that has built up around this situation.

Going forward, Collingwood has - at present - 1 big key forward with a track-record of consistent high-quality performance at senior level. His goal-kicking is dreadful but that didn't stop Collingwood playing in the last 2 GFs and his poor kicking wasn't a factor in the ultimate outcome of either game (although it was certainly one of the reasons Collingwood didn't have an unassailable lead at half-time in 2010 GF1).

He's not, perhaps, the greatest CHF Collingwood has ever had (Ron Todd may have been better, before he moved closer to goal - and Carman and Anthony Rocca both were, occasionally, in the comparitively few matches where they were able to turn it on) but he's been consistently better than any other player who has played that position at Collingwood in my life-time.

It's disappointing that the contract issue hasn't been resolved (yet) - and it was quite stupid of Travis to appear on the Footy Show. But having a careful look at the list (and the splendid performances by the talls in the seconds over the season), there is no player at the 'Pies who could perform the role he's performed since 2007 even passably well. If he is allowed to go, the Krak is just about our next best contested-marking target in the forward 50. I don't like the present position better than the next Collingwood supporter but anyone who thinks Collingwood will become more competitive without Travis Cloke is, with respect, delusional.

Doc63 wrote:

Brian from Mulgrave wrote:In 2010 we had the Mick Malthouse saga which was hugely damaging .

In 2012 we have the never ending Travis Cloke saga which shows no signs of ending . I thought the club would learn from their mistakes .

I bet Hawthorn will sign up Lance Franklin long before his contract expires at the end of 2013

The club cant force a pen into his hand Brian.

And Damir Cloke doesn't manage Buddy, so I imagine that he'll probably be staying at Hawthorn, without it dragging on like a season of Days of our Lives.

Franklin already gets his $1M, too - so it's not going to be such an issue for the Hawks, is it?

Brian from Mulgrave wrote:In 2010 we had the Mick Malthouse saga which was hugely damaging .

In 2012 we have the never ending Travis Cloke saga which shows no signs of ending . I thought the club would learn from their mistakes .

I bet Hawthorn will sign up Lance Franklin long before his contract expires at the end of 2013

Bingo. If Cloke wants a million like Buddy, then why don't we sell him off now and wait to make the mother of all trades with Hawthorn for Buddy next year? On stats alone Buddy is twice the player Cloke is.

After winning their 11th premiership since 1961 the Hawks will have salary cap pressures of their own in 2013.

Pies4shaw wrote:

Doc63 wrote:

Brian from Mulgrave wrote:In 2010 we had the Mick Malthouse saga which was hugely damaging .

In 2012 we have the never ending Travis Cloke saga which shows no signs of ending . I thought the club would learn from their mistakes .

I bet Hawthorn will sign up Lance Franklin long before his contract expires at the end of 2013

The club cant force a pen into his hand Brian.

And Damir Cloke doesn't manage Buddy, so I imagine that he'll probably be staying at Hawthorn, without it dragging on like a season of Days of our Lives.

Franklin already gets his $1M, too - so it's not going to be such an issue for the Hawks, is it?

True, but Buddy is worth a hell of a lot more than Travis.

jack_spain wrote:

Brian from Mulgrave wrote:In 2010 we had the Mick Malthouse saga which was hugely damaging .

In 2012 we have the never ending Travis Cloke saga which shows no signs of ending . I thought the club would learn from their mistakes .

I bet Hawthorn will sign up Lance Franklin long before his contract expires at the end of 2013

Bingo. If Cloke wants a million like Buddy, then why don't we sell him off now and wait to make the mother of all trades with Hawthorn for Buddy next year? On stats alone Buddy is twice the player Cloke is.

After winning their 11th premiership since 1961 the Hawks will have salary cap pressures of their own in 2013.

Come on, that would make you happy and sad at the same time wouldn't it? Winning the premiership and losing Buddy?