Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[Magpietothemax]

Israel has a green light to do as it pleases as they do have a right to defend themselves. The issue is they are taking out civilians at the same time. The change has to come from within Iran and Lebanon but alas the religious extremism on all sides means peace is unachievable. The world has to accept refugees from the region but no one wants a bar of them. Especially Dutton, the RW view is they are all terrorists. I am more annoyed that Australians decided to stay/visit there despite the warnings and now want the Government to get them out and put our service people in danger.

"Israel has the greenlight to do as it pleases" is not equivalent to "self-defence". It is carteblanche for carrying out a war of annihilation, as the Zionists are doing right now.
Where is the "right to self-defence" of the Palestinians? Or of the people of Lebanon?

[Brodies Dad]

Holding pro Palestine rally's on the 1 year anniversary of when Hamas attacked, raped and murdered Israeli civilians, women and children is entirely lacking in class and if the protestors had a modicum of intelligence or insight, they wouldn't be there.

Luckily the few who did show up got to hear the pearls of wisdom from that great intellectual giant, Lydia Thorpe. An attention seeking imbecile preaching to attention seeking imbeciles. How fitting.

They were protesting the crimes against humanity being carried out by the current criminal Israeli Likud regime.

Israel is committing war crimes with impunity . The Gazans have experienced 364 October 7s.

That is NOT self defence.

[What'sinaname]

Israel has to cripple Hamas and Hezbollah. Doing so will bring a decade of peace while these terrorists re-build. And then it'll all happen again.

[Culprit]

Extremists on both sides are having children whilst moderates aren’t. There will be no peace in the middle east in my lifetime and I doubt it there will ever be peace in the future. But alas innocent people will die on all sides for the greater good that will never come.

[nomadjack]

Holding pro Palestine rally's on the 1 year anniversary of when Hamas attacked, raped and murdered Israeli civilians, women and children is entirely lacking in class and if the protestors had a modicum of intelligence or insight, they wouldn't be there.

And yet we're happy to celebrate Australia Day on January 26th and to demonise those that want the day moved? Mmmm cake...keep it...eat it...

[stui magpie]

I'd argue 2 different things there NJ.

[Durka]

Holding pro Palestine rally's on the 1 year anniversary of when Hamas attacked, raped and murdered Israeli civilians, women and children is entirely lacking in class and if the protestors had a modicum of intelligence or insight, they wouldn't be there.

And yet we're happy to celebrate Australia Day on January 26th and to demonise those that want the day moved? Mmmm cake...keep it...eat it...

Phillip arrived and landed in Australia on 18th January.
The whingers will whinge no matter what date is chosen.

[David]

Israel has to cripple Hamas and Hezbollah. Doing so will bring a decade of peace while these terrorists re-build. And then it'll all happen again.

The idea that any of this can lead to "a decade of peace" is insanity. Peace will only come through an end to the destruction, no more settlements, an independent Palestinian state and a lot of hard work on both sides to rectify the past and build trust.

At present, Israel is only digging itself and Palestinians a deeper hole with more suffering and greater desire for revenge on both sides. Hamas will only collapse by being replaced by more extreme groups like Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the cycle will continue; otherwise, you have to give Palestinian people a reason to believe in a moderate alternative that will look out for their interests and protect them from Israeli aggression. Unfortunately nobody believes that the Palestinian Authority can do that anymore and no other moderating has room to breathe, so the extremists will continue their ascendence.

There's no logic whatsoever to thinking that you can end violence by turning the temperature up further. The people in charge of Israel at the moment are idiots boldly marching off a cliff, and the very least we can do as allies is to stop helping them.

[stui magpie]

*

I'm all for a separate, independent Palestinian state, but do you think that will really placate the Islamic religious leaders in Iran who are committed to the destruction of Israel?.

This is a very good (IMHO) look at the whole mess through a slightly different lens, with some biting observations of modern western cultural perspectives.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/middle- ... 5kfzb.html

[David]

Israel has been openly provoking Iran for a year, and the best they can offer in response is a couple of token strikes that they know will get shot down by the IDF's missile defence system. I don't think Israel has anything to legitimately fear from Iran (at least, so long as America is around to back them up), and as much as both countries' leaderships want their people to believe otherwise, I think everyone in power understands that perfectly.

[stui magpie]

^
That was Iran firing some missiles and completely misses the point on how they've been funding, training, and supplying weapons to Hamas, Hezbollah and every other rag tag bunch of nimrods who are willing to attack Israel. All these terrorist groups surrounding Israel don't exist without Iran.

[Magpietothemax]

^
That was Iran firing some missiles and completely misses the point on how they've been funding, training, and supplying weapons to Hamas, Hezbollah and every other rag tag bunch of nimrods who are willing to attack Israel. All these terrorist groups surrounding Israel don't exist without Iran.

...looks like you've missed a few points there Stui, such as for example how the US has been militarily arming Israel to the teeth for the last few decades, and if you do actually try to educate yourself on history, you will find that these US supplied weapons have been utilised by Israel on countless occasions to attack, maim and murder the people in Gaza, Syria and Lebanon in a ratio of hundreds to 1.

Yet you don't seem to apply the same stupid label of "nimrods" to the Israeli government .

This is because your views are just so ridiculously biased towards the oppressor state, Israel, that they cannot be taken seriously.

Anyone who argues for the master against the slave in any situation never has any commitment to historical truth.

[stui magpie]

The Master Slave analogy says everything about your view and completely ignores the constant threats of attack that israel has been living with since formation, hence I completely disregard your views as being hopelessly biased.

I assume you didn't bother to read the Age article I posted?

[Magpietothemax]

Israel has to cripple Hamas and Hezbollah. Doing so will bring a decade of peace while these terrorists re-build. And then it'll all happen again.

The idea that any of this can lead to "a decade of peace" is insanity. Peace will only come through an end to the destruction, no more settlements, an independent Palestinian state and a lot of hard work on both sides to rectify the past and build trust.

At present, Israel is only digging itself and Palestinians a deeper hole with more suffering and greater desire for revenge on both sides. Hamas will only collapse by being replaced by more extreme groups like Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the cycle will continue; otherwise, you have to give Palestinian people a reason to believe in a moderate alternative that will look out for their interests and protect them from Israeli aggression. Unfortunately nobody believes that the Palestinian Authority can do that anymore and no other moderating has room to breathe, so the extremists will continue their ascendence.

There's no logic whatsoever to thinking that you can end violence by turning the temperature up further. The people in charge of Israel at the moment are idiots boldly marching off a cliff, and the very least we can do as allies is to stop helping them.

David, the sooner you realise that an "independent, democratic state living in harmony with Israel " was a fraud from the very first day, and that hoping for one now is the highest point of Utopian fantasy, the better.

Israel is not acting independently. It is the mailed fist of US imperialism. US imperialism has an agenda: to reorganise the Middle East. Netanyahu displayed the maps of "Greater Israel" himself on Sep 22, 2023, at a UN General Assembly, 2 weeks before the Oct 7 incursion by Hamas.

Israel's genocide in Gaza was planned before Oct 7, by Israel and the US.

Then, as we now know, on Oct 7 itself, there was a deliberate stand down of Israel's border security to allow the attack by Hamas to proceed (the plan of which Israeli intelligence was already aware), to create a pretext for unleashing a preplanned genocide.

The ultimate aim always was to provoke a war against Iran, because Iran is the major obstacle to untrammeled US (and Israeli) domination over the Middle East.

[Magpietothemax]

^@Stui magpie
I couldn't read the Age article because of the paywall.

The master slave analogy is absolutely appropriate here.

Like I said, if you were to read a true, objective (and non-Zionist) history of the formation of the state of Israel, you would come to learn that the Israeli nation state was based on ethnically cleansng the people who had been living in Palestine for hundreds of years by Zionist terrorists.

In 1948 these Zionist paramilitary forces murdered, massacred, terrified and expelled hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, displacing them to present day Gaza. This was terrorism of a far more brutal and extensive scale than anything that either Hezbollah or Hamas has ever carried out.

As you might (hopefully) be able to imagine, the people of Palestine who were so violently dispossessed of everything, their means of living, their homes, never lost their hope to return.

They transmitted this hope and this tragic experience to their children, and the children did to their children, and these feelings were intensified by the poverty, and the murderous oppression that Israeli governments have maintained over them since 1948.

But everything you write turns this historical reality upside down. Everything you write portrays "poor little Israel" as the victim/slave, and the impoverished people of Gaza and Lebanon as the oppressor/master.