The "What do we get for Beams?" thread

[Podpicken]

What we've basically gotten is pick 5, Greenwood and Crisp. Greenwood came second in his clubs B&F last season, a club that made a preliminary final mind you.

If Greenwood played for Brisbane and we ended up trading beams for pick 5, the second player in Brisbane's B&F and Crisp we'd be fairly pleased, so i don't see an issue with this deal at all to be honest. Sure, I would have preferred Redden or Aish but it's clear Brisbane simply weren't willing to do it and at the end of the day, as much as some here would have apparently loved to see it, keeping Beams was not an option. He's been working to make his position untenable (no B&F turnup, smart ass comments on social media etc) and he's gotten his way.

As far as Varcoe for H, I think that's a level trade. I've been one of H's biggest fans during his career with us but the last 2 seasons he's been disappointing in my eyes. Plays ripper first quarters and constantly disappears afterwards, not to mention that in games where we lose his impact is normally quite low. His best games come during Collingwood's best games, he thrives on our momentum, not the other way around.

Varcoe may not be everyone's favourite player but he fills in some gaps for us; he's got pace, can use the football, has an x factor that we are desperately missing and has been part of a successful system at Geelong.

I'm content with the business we've done, hopefully we pick the right player at the draft!

Can't disagree with that. I guess, my only misgiving is that I have never seen Crisp play. Apparently he's a big bodied, hard at it, gut running midfielder, which is what we need. Struggling to get a regular game at the Lions is a definite worry, but at 21 yrs of age, there may be huge upside with him. I guess we'll know in a year or two, whether he was a good recruit. If he becomes part of our best 22 then its been a good deal.

The struggling to get a game thing is wrong. He forced his way in with about six games to go and was a lock-in moving forward due to his performances. They've got to start somewhere, he's taken his chance and looking the goods.

[Domesticated_Ape]

We don't need to wait for free agency or target players out of contract.

Brisbane didn't.

Rockliff is the way to make everything right again

Rockliff wont leave, he loves it up there.

I say we don't give up on Aish. The kid is refusing to sign a contract. I reckon he wants to come to Collingwood and play under his hero, Nathan Buckley, and with his good mates, Schrenberg, Grundy, Kennedy and Broomhead. It's just that he doesn't feel right about asking for a trade in his first year.

Our first pick in 2015 should get the deal done.

I'd rather we go after Botempelli.

Same problem as Rockliff I feel. Also he might be contaminated after drinking from the toilet of Bulldog failure all through 2015. Great young player ATM though.

[swoop42]

If Greenwood maintains his form from this season that's at least 80% of Beams covered already at a minimum.

Who knows he might just get better from here on out and close the gap again next season.

Frankly, our problem stems from the fact that we are replacing players with players who are 80% of the player they are replacing. When we were premiers, the team that won the wooden spoon had players that were across the board on average probably 90% as good as our players.

80%, 90% I could have chosen either of those.

I should have just said Beams is A grade, Greenwood this season was B+.

What he may lack in numbers compared to Beams is probably made up with his hardness at the ball and man.

Greenwood maintains that form for the next 3 to 4 years, we make good use of pick 5 and Crisp becomes a handy type and we'll certainly end up in front IMO in the long run.

I'd argue Crisp could quickly prove to be an upgrade over Blair who played 21 games this season. That's a win straight away.

[John Wren]

how do you conclude crisp could be an upgrade on blair? they're not fighting for the same role.

[AN_Inkling]

And Blair has at least 5 years left. No need to replace him.

[Bob Sugar]

Our club.let us down, they treated us like muppets, Tony Shaw days here we come!

[Domesticated_Ape]

And Blair has at least 5 years left. No need to replace him.

Disagree. Blairy is a seat warmer for mine. I love his intensity when he's on, but if there's a spot for a guy with his skill level in our starting 21 by the end of 2016, then something has gone wrong with the development of our young kids.

I wouldn't trade Blair. He's a great servant and clubman and we couldn't replace that with a 3rd round pick. I just expect that he ends up being a depth player for us.

[jdpie1970]

how do you conclude crisp could be an upgrade on blair? they're not fighting for the same role.

Blairy for all his buzzing around is relatively ineffective. His high pressure acts stat is disproportionate to his ball winning ability and unlike Pendles he does not disrupt the ball leaving his area anywhere often enough for the time he spends in the vicinity of the contest.
Crisp is not only taller but obviously much longer in arm span and if the talk about his appetite for for being in traffic is correct he will have a far greater impact (defensively) on the contest. Also he has the advantage of being a left footer and this always buys a player a moment in traffic as they are generally turning away from the opponent.
I agree that he potentially is a Blair upgrade. The other thing to consider is that Blairy does not hit the scoreboard anywhere near enough for a small forward.

[swoop42]

how do you conclude crisp could be an upgrade on blair? they're not fighting for the same role.

Really?

What is Blair's role apart from running around looking busy?

If you think he's a defensive forward then why couldn't Crisp play that role?

Quicker, taller, can kick a goal, supposedly hard at it, a player who actually sounds a bit like Goldsack with perhaps more scope to play through the midfield.

For me that's a potential upgrade.

[swoop42]

http://www.lions.com.au/player-profile/jack-crisp

"He was selected in the Victoria Country team for the National Championships where he was noted for his hard-tackling and one per centers. In fact, he averaged 15 pressure acts per match throughout the carnival".

And we all know Bucks loves his pressure acts.

Crisp is the new improved Blair.

Lock it in Eddie.

[Damien]

How many defensive forwards do you play? Goldsack is acknowledged in that role too. Hey play 6 and we kick zero goals.

Loved the wee mans contribution but I see him not in our best 22 in 2015 so put him on the table I say.

It's a cut throat environment but gotta do what's best for CFC.

[Museman]

Greenwood is not a Beams replacement, he's not the same type, Greenwood would appear to me to be a Caff replacement...maybe even an upgrade, but a Beams replacement we do not have, did not get, our midfield was sh!thouse this year...we are in all sorts of shit next year.......

[Bob Sugar]

Greenwood is not a Beams replacement, he's not the same type, Greenwood would appear to me to be a Caff replacement...maybe even an upgrade, but a Beams replacement we do not have, did not get, our midfield was sh!thouse this year...we are in all sorts of shit next year.......

But we'll deserve to be where we're at, contested ball, forward pressure blah blah blah.

[Domesticated_Ape]

Greenwood is not a Beams replacement, he's not the same type, Greenwood would appear to me to be a Caff replacement...maybe even an upgrade, but a Beams replacement we do not have, did not get, our midfield was sh!thouse this year...we are in all sorts of shit next year.......

Greenwood a poor mans Luke Ball I reckon. Beams is a loss. But next year was always going to depend on the development of Seedsman, Broomhead, Kennedy, Adams, Witts, Grundy, Langdon, Williams, Keefe, Frost, Freeman, Karnezis, Thomas, Fasolo, Ramsey, Marsh, Gault and Oxley.

You can probably add Crisp and pick 5 to that list soon.

[swoop42]

Greenwood is far more Beams like than Macaffer.

Greenwood averaged the second most disposals for North across the year.

Macaffer was 20th for us.

Greenwood had 34 scoring shots. Beams 39.