The Collingwood Football Club and Nick's Collingwood Page

Post by **Mike** » Sat Apr 15, 2000 5:20 am

WARNING - LONG WHINGE FOLLOWS

This site is now in its 5th season. The only Collingwood site that is older is the official site which is now in its 6th season.

The site started out as a simple one page homage by Nick to the Club and as a place for him to store all his footy links, but grew very quickly into a resource used by many people. The site carried, and still carries:

the first live scoreboard in the country
a fan mail facility so that fans could email support directly to the Club
the only searchable online AFL scores database in existence, covering all home and away games since the inception of the Club
individual player info and stats for all players and all games since 1997
the first Collingwood Bulletin Board
the first Collingwood chat room (the one on the scoreboard)
lots of other stuff

At the risk of blowing our own trumpets, we feel that over the last 4 years we have been of immeasurable value to the Club and to its fans.

The Club has never felt that it could recognise the existence of the site officially, but until recently has always been very supportive unofficially as the following few emails show. The Richard and John mentioned are Richard Stremski and John May.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Michael, I am checking on the mira address and will let you know as soon as possible. Your original message did reach me, but ironically came in directly rather than through my send and receive messages!

I'm appreciative of all that you and Nick have done for Collingwood. It's possible that our website might be almost ready for players to receive email messages directly. Thank God for Nick's page having provided that service.

Anyway, I'll let you know.
Cheers, Richard<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Mike, I handed Mal Michael a print-out of the message from his family yesterday. I've spoken to John May this morning on the phone about the email messaging problem and will give him a print-out of your message to me about it when I see him this afternoon.

Richard<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Thanks for your comments. I have passed a copy on and I'm hopeful we can address some of the issues. As much as I am sure it is frustrating for an experienced Internet user, I feel we are improving it. We are currently reviewing who will maintain the site in the future, but are still sorting through the contractual situation previously arranged.

With regard to the fan mail, in the short term please send it to me for distribution to the players while I organise a replacement address.

Thanks again for your help.

John<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hi Micheal,

Could you please arrange for your site to use the following address for fan mail.

kgilbert@bigpond.com.au

Thanks for diverting the mail.

Regards,

JOHN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hello. As of tommorrow Wednesday 7th July. my email address will be changed to kgilbert@primus.com.au. Please make a note of the change

Thank you

Karen Gilbert
Media Communications & Public Relations Manager
Collingwood Football Club<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Nick

If possible could you please redirect all supporter enquiries to camroberts@primus.com.au rather than to kgilbert@primus.com.au in the short term. We are currently changing the structure of our email at the club (hence the address will change again soon!), and the queries would be best handled by myself until the club appoints a new media manager to replace Karen Gilbert & Alex McDonald.

Please reply to camroberts@primus.com.au to ensure you received this email.

Thanks

Cam Roberts
Football Technology Manager
COLLINGWOOD FOOTBALL CLUB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you can see we were always kept advised of contact arrangements and could feel confident that the services we provided were being utilised and appreciated.

The reason for this epistle is that the situation has changed radically and I feel the need to make the changes public and let you know of the possible effect on the future of this site.

We used to be sent advice on all breaking news, a weekly media release advising training time and venues, injury status, upcoming player milestones, Social Club events and other bits and pieces - you might remember we had a weekly news bulletin on the Bulletin Board. We haven't received any media releases at all since the new official site came on line.

So I rang Robert Pyman, the current Media Communications & Public Relations Manager. He said "All that information is available on the web site. We only send out media releases to the media through the AFL, we don't want just anyone turning up to our media events."

Less work for us and people can still access the information from the official site - that's ok.

Then I asked him about the fan mail (which is running at about 100 / week at the moment). He said "I don't know, never heard of it, they can use the web site for that anyway." So I asked him if it was picked up or if it was just being ignored and he replied that he thought it was probably just being left. He wasn't really interested, I could tell that he thought I was just some crackpot with a web site who was wasting his valuable time. So I thanked him and hung up.

On top of the recent membership fiasco, of which I was one of the victims, this has really pissed me off. The Club has turned around on the field, but its Member relations appear to be worse than ever. Is this what it takes for the Club to be successful? Do we really have to gain onfield performance at the expense of Member service?

To be fair, the Club has never asked or expected us to do what we've been doing, but while we felt that we were contributing, the effort and expense (and it is expensive) that went into this site was easy to justify. I think that we filled a huge hole over the long period that the official site was so inept.

That is no longer the case, the new official site is carrying the load admirably and I think that if the current administration know of us at all, they see us as competitors and an annoyance. So we are rethinking the future of the site.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Sat Apr 15, 2000 7:53 am

whhhaaattt? CRAP! This seems really dissapointing to me, and Pyman seems to be a real asshole. Something, I don't know what though, needs to be done about this. How can they neglect such a great and valuable resource such as this site? The Club needs a good talking to.

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CARN THE PIES!!!!!
Collingwood is all about togetherness. "We live or die as a side," Buckley said. "Everything we do now is as a team."

Neil Appleby · Post by **Neil Appleby** » Sat Apr 15, 2000 8:05 am

Crickey, What a rotten day it's turning out.
It started well enough thanks to 'Two Pies in Cairns'; the tape of the Carlton game arrived.....YES!
My holiday has been stuffed up by the estate agents who sounded about as sympathetic as Robert Pyman to you Mike. Then this posting.
Now forget Mr Pyman and others like him.
They're paid by the club, there's no passion
or love or loyalty in any of them.
We value this site.
Gee, where else can people from Manchester, Hong Kong, California Darwin, Cairns etc communicate about OUR club?
We don't use the official site; I go there once in a blue moon; this is what I am interested in.
Thanks to this site I now have a complete tape of Coll whipping Carlton.
Thanks to everyone who posts with news and messages and Mike and Nick .....keep it up.
We'd all be at a loss if you weren't here.

Greg J · Post by **Greg J** » Sat Apr 15, 2000 8:54 am

I concur.

You do not need, to take heed, of the words from anyone representing the "new administration". They have only been told we have a history, they do not know what it means. Nick's Page has become part of Collingwood's history and the people putting it together do not deserve to be treated shabbily.

I hope you all receive an official apology from Eddie McPie himself. You have helped the club in a tangible fashion, in a way it could not at the time help itself. I am shallow enough to feel proud of all the "firsts" and "bests" that Collingwood's unofficial web-site has achieved.

Please accept my apologies on behalf of the club. I only hope they give it to you themselves. Do not be discouraged by the words of a few. In a period of great change many things are overlooked and ignored.
Please persist in your endeavours. If not now, I do see the need when you will be a competitor to the official site. I am sure it is sitting in the back of Eddie McPie's mind to make the most money out of Internet membership. In this sense I guess you can not expect them to be so free with some information, that will want people to pay them to get that information. A forum will still need to exist for independent debate and for the information to be passed on to people without the resources to become internet members. This will be Nick's Page!

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Sat Apr 15, 2000 6:02 pm

Mike, Nick,

Technically, since the contract for the Official CFC Site has been picked up by somebody new (Artists Services) this makes your Site the oldest! The present Official CFC Site is still in its infancy.

Was interested to see your notes of Richard Stremski; he actually didn't allow "The Collingwood Rant" to be linked on the old Official Site.

I think, though, in regards to fan-mail and such you should probably contact Artist Services themselves. Pyman probably only knows the Site as "that Web-thingy."

Somebody at Artist Services might have direct contact with somebody in the Administration who actually knows what's going on, since Pyman obviously does not, (and the big question is: was he - Pyman - simply retained because of his name?)

At the very least, I think you should write (via snail-mail) the Club and tell them they should address this situation before one of the other Artist Services' Club Sites takes the initiative and leaves them playing "catch-up."

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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
Don't believe the Facts until you've read the Rants!
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

AlfAndrews · Post by **AlfAndrews** » Sat Apr 15, 2000 6:56 pm

I liked Greg]'s comment when he said, "Nick's page has become part of Collingwood's history".

Never has a truer word been spoken.

Mike and Nick, you may have gathered from my previous posts that I'm doing a Ph.D. on football barrackers. I'm from the History Dept at Monash. Only yesterday I wrote a couple of paragraphs for my thesis specifically about Nick's Collingwood Page. I compared it to some of the official sites, such as the AFL site and the Collingwood FC site. The main point that I made was that the official sites were really just PR avenues for the clubs and the League and that they were promoting the same essentially passive consumerism that television offers.

Nick's site, on the other hand, serves as a genuine vehicle of community formation. Much of my thesis is devoted to the notion of "community" and how it applies in football.

Without going into too much detail and boring everyone to death, suffice to say I think your site is infinitely more important to football fans than all the official sites put together. It gives people like us, with all our different points of view, a chance to actually get together in a public forum and discuss what's REALLY happening in football, from the ordinary fan's perspective - and not from the perspective of football's propaganda machine.

No matter what happens, this site must continue, with or without the club's blessing or co-operation. And if the Club sees you as some sort of corporate competitor threatening their slice of the action, then that is THEIR problem, not yours.

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**floreat pica**

2 PIES IN CAIRNS · Post by **2 PIES IN CAIRNS** » Sun Apr 16, 2000 5:54 am

Mike and Nick: Pretty well all the reasons you should stay right where you are have been put forward quite eloquently by others before me. Suffice to say you have my total loyalty and support.
Mike, my only disagreement is with your statement to the effect that the so-called Official Site is now doing a good job.
I asked them a simple question about a month ago by email. It took them a week to respond. In the meantime, I had phoned the club as I thought my email was being ignored when I didn't get a reply after about 3 days. The info on the phone was different to that in their tardy email so I sent another message asking which was correct and subtly advising that they still hadn't got their act together. That was on April 3rd and I'm still waiting.

Just for fun, I visited the "official Site" a few minutes ago! The time at the top of the home page is an hour out!! Guess they haven't bothered to change since daylight saving ended! At least they got the date right. Also, the injury update page is as at 9/4/00! It's an hour and a half before the start of today's game vs the Roos and the injury page is tellingus that Ukovic will be back and that Gavin Brown will face a test.
These inept clowns are participating in a multi-million dollar business and their lack of expertise, professionalism, courtesy and accuracy is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH! I'll be continuing to tell them from time to time (might explain why my emails don't always draw a response). Hopefully others will do the same and just maybe one day they'll get the message.

Yep, leave this forum right where it is , thanks.

London Dave · Post by **London Dave** » Sun Apr 16, 2000 11:04 am

Agree with all others. Don't even consider closing down.
The official site would never allow the type of discussions that go on here. The Adelaide site I hear has been heavily censored/and or shut down (Suprised to know they can read, write and use a computer over there), and it wouldn't take a lot to bruise the inflated egos of the Victoria Park thought police, judging from the on the ballness of Mr Pyman.

The only visits I've had to the official site have left me unable to purchase a membership (have to leave it to my bro in Melbourne).

Pity about the Kangaroos loss, but hopefully we can bounce back. Was A.Rocca a big loss?

Have a nice easter all, 'm off to Turkey for ANZAC day.

paul · Post by **paul** » Sun Apr 16, 2000 1:53 pm

I have followed Collingwood for a long time (I can remember seeing Tuddy's first game).

I have never felt more like I was a prt of the Magpie Army than since I've been posting on this board. Being from the country I can't always get to the games. The ability to be able to share the game time with others around the nation and internationally is something I really value. The chat during the draft turned a boring TV event into an interesting exchange of knowledge and expectations.

An official site would and could never achieve this.

We should all write (via snail mail) to Eddie and Swanny expressing our disgust at this treatment. Quote you memberhip numbers if you have them.

Post by **Mike** » Sun Apr 16, 2000 2:16 pm

I'm going to sit with this for another day before I respond to your posts, but I need to say now that I feel extremely humbled by your responses and Nick and I truly appreciate the support.

I broke one of my own cardinal rules with my first post - Never post in the heat of the moment.

Please don't follow my lead and over-react.

Clemo · Post by **Clemo** » Mon Apr 17, 2000 4:06 am

Mike & Nick,

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease keep at it guys.

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Collingwood Forever !
Tony_Clemente@hotmail.com
www.netspace.net.au/~clemo

Post by **Mike** » Tue Apr 18, 2000 4:59 pm

I've just re-read my original post and I have to say that I am now somewhat embarrassed. It reads like the petulant outburst that it probably was.

The facts are that Nick's site was originally created by Nick and developed by both of us as a tribute to the Pies and as a means of overcoming our geographical isolation from the Club. Although it's true that we saw deficiencies in the official site and tried to fill the gap by providing the things that we would liked to have used on the official site but couldn't, it was never intended that this site compete. It was, and still is purely a fan site. It never occurred to us that it would grow to the size that it has, that just seemed to evolve. It also never in our wildest dreams occurred to us that the Club would know of and recognise our efforts. A kid, interstate, in the bush with a website and the Collingwood Football Club?

That changed after a two paragraph article about the site in the Herald Sun in 1997 and John May left a note in the Guest Book (http://www.magpies.net/nick/gbmay.htm). I emailed him about some problems with the fan mail and he and Richard Stremski sorted it out for us. Richard then started to post on the Bulletin Board, but stopped after he became too popular and was afraid that he would take over the board and it would lose direction. When Karen Gilbert joined the Club she organised for us to receive all media releases and for us to receive the selected team by fax every Thursday night. So we had the CEO, one of the Directors and the PR Manager on side and working for us - unbelievable cooperation and support.

We made the mistake, I think, of becoming accustomed to a level of contact with the Club that we had no right to expect and when, with the change of administration and the introduction of the new site, that level of contact changed, I reacted inappropriately and thoughtlessly.

Let's look at the facts.

<UL>[*] As I stated in my previous post the Club has never asked or expected us to do what we've been doing.
[*] Unless the new administration were advised of our existence, there is no reason to expect that they should know of us.
[*] Considering that he was probably unaware of the site, Robert Pyman who was courteous, if somewhat bemused, had no real reason to place any importance on what I was saying.[/list]

As for the future of Nick's Collingwood Page. Although it is a labour of love, it has become a big job and I have real trouble justifying (and can't really afford) the expense. It will have to change, but for the life of me I can't see how at the moment. We will try and give you notice of any radical changes and keep you all involved in the process, but at the moment I can't make any promises.

Thank you for your support, you have no idea what the messages in this thread have meant to us.

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:18 pm

Nick and Mike
I think that what you have done for Collingwodd is great. Maybe if it is becoming to much of a burdon for you some of us other supporters could help out a bit.
I really hope that you continue this sight!!

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 20, 2000 2:43 am

A little bit of history. In my initial post I made the claim that Nick's site was the oldest unofficial site , a point that Sly followed up on.

I think I should point out that we weren't the first. The honour of being the first Collingwood web site ever (including the official site) went to 'Magpie Magic', the site that actually inspired the creation of this one. 'Magpie Magic' was created and run in 1995 by Driver, who now has Buckley Surfers.

'Swoop' also hit the net at about the same time as this site, I'm not sure which was first. 'Swoop', which I think was originally launched under another name, was run by our very own Newelly who gave it up to concentrate on academic pursuits and Neil Appleby baiting.

This is an unofficial Bulletin Board - owned and run by its users. We welcome all fans of the Mighty Collingwood Football Club.

The Collingwood Football Club and Nick's Collingwood Page

The Collingwood Football Club and Nick's Collingwood Page