Gender and domestic violence

[David]

<split from 'Feminism on the loose' thread>

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." Margaret Attwood

I've heard this one a lot recently. It's certainly intended to be profound, but what does it actually mean? Are most women generally afraid somewhere deep down that their husbands, dads or adult male children are going to knock them off one day? Or is it just some, like, abstract ultimate fear? Because if it's the latter, I've certainly (reasonably or otherwise) had more to worry about some women than merely being laughed at in the past. Craziness isn't the sole domain of the male gender.

[Mugwump]

^ I've never understood the appeal of Attwood. Novelists, almost by definition, work within and are sensitive to the particulars of individual lives rather than cbviously-false generalisations based on interest-groups. That aphorism is a case in point.

[think positive]

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." Margaret Attwood

I've heard this one a lot recently. It's certainly intended to be profound, but what does it actually mean? Are most women generally afraid somewhere deep down that their husbands, dads or adult male children are going to knock them off one day? Or is it just some, like, abstract ultimate fear? Because if it's the latter, I've certainly (reasonably or otherwise) had more to worry about some women than merely being laughed at in the past. Craziness isn't the sole domain of the male gender.

Nothing to do with crazy, sheer size and that big masculine temper. Your in the minority, Most men are physically stronger, bigger, heavier,

I had a father who hated to be laughed at or proven wrong, and a mother terrified of Her, or her children, being killed.

I get it. If your a woman out alone, you see a guy you don't know, your careful. You just are. I doubt most men feel that way.

[David]

I think actually a lot of us do, but just don't talk about it. I've had moments of paranoia walking home and I suspect a lot of fitter and stronger guys have had the same experience. At the end of the day there's not a lot you can do if someone pulls a knife on you.

[Wokko]

I would suggest that the odds of being randomly attacked or murdered are overwhelmingly weighted against men.

[Wokko]

I think actually a lot of us do, but just don't talk about it. I've had moments of paranoia walking home and I suspect a lot of fitter and stronger guys have had the same experience. At the end of the day there's not a lot you can do if someone pulls a knife on you.

I'm capable enough at unarmed combat to beat someone inside of 10 seconds once we hit the ground and I feel fear when walking alone at night and someone is coming towards me (groups make me even more nervous). So the difference between being strong and capable and well, not so much is only in the outcome and if someone is armed rather than just looking for a blue then I'd be in as much shit as you (maybe more because I'd be more likely to fight than flight initially).

[Morrigu]

I would suggest that the odds of being randomly attacked or murdered are overwhelmingly weighted against men.

Would agree but the odds or being attacked, raped, murdered by someone you know are overwhelmingly weighted against women.

[Mugwump]

I would suggest that the odds of being randomly attacked or murdered are overwhelmingly weighted against men.

Would agree but the odds or being attacked, raped, murdered by someone you know are overwhelmingly weighted against women.

Oh, that's true. But everyone hates being laughed at, men and women. Everyone hates being attacked, men and women. There is no doubt that there are more violent men than women. But it's strange to generalise the way that original saying does.

[stui magpie]

I think actually a lot of us do, but just don't talk about it. I've had moments of paranoia walking home and I suspect a lot of fitter and stronger guys have had the same experience. At the end of the day there's not a lot you can do if someone pulls a knife on you.

I'm capable enough at unarmed combat to beat someone inside of 10 seconds once we hit the ground and I feel fear when walking alone at night and someone is coming towards me (groups make me even more nervous). So the difference between being strong and capable and well, not so much is only in the outcome and if someone is armed rather than just looking for a blue then I'd be in as much shit as you (maybe more because I'd be more likely to fight than flight initially).

I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag unless they were stupid enough to stand still and let me punch in which case I can cause damage, but I'm big and ugly enough to not have worried about my safety walking around anywhere at night on my own. Just exude confidence but not cockiness.

The only time I've been the victim of a random attack occurred at 2am while I was asleep in bed and involved a claw hammer. Lucky I have a hard head.

[think positive]

I think actually a lot of us do, but just don't talk about it. I've had moments of paranoia walking home and I suspect a lot of fitter and stronger guys have had the same experience. At the end of the day there's not a lot you can do if someone pulls a knife on you.

I'm capable enough at unarmed combat to beat someone inside of 10 seconds once we hit the ground and I feel fear when walking alone at night and someone is coming towards me (groups make me even more nervous). So the difference between being strong and capable and well, not so much is only in the outcome and if someone is armed rather than just looking for a blue then I'd be in as much shit as you (maybe more because I'd be more likely to fight than flight initially).

I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag unless they were stupid enough to stand still and let me punch in which case I can cause damage, but I'm big and ugly enough to not have worried about my safety walking around anywhere at night on my own. Just exude confidence but not cockiness.

The only time I've been the victim of a random attack occurred at 2am while I was asleep in bed and involved a claw hammer. Lucky I have a hard head.

Jeeeesus!

My nephew is 6'4" big bastard, built like a brick shithouse, he got king hit in Europe somewhere, woke up with a sore head, no wallet etc, there is always someone bigger

I reckon the saying is about family situations

[David]

While not seeking to minimise your experience, TP, and acknowledging that it is a reality for many wives and children out there, one would hope that it's only representative of a small minority of family situations.

The problem I have with the quote is that it seems to be saying "all men have to fear from their female partners is their pride being hurt". And yet we know that female-on-male domestic violence is a real and likely highly underreported phenomenon, and that it can result in stalking, threats or even murder. Yes, this only happens to a very small percentage of men (perhaps at aroumd a 10 times smaller ratio than female victims of male partner violence - not sure on the exact statistics), but is it really the case that an equivalent majority of women fear dying at the hands of their male partners? Or anywhere near a majority at all? In which case, even as a generalisation, it's misleading.

[think positive]

While not seeking to minimise your experience, TP, and acknowledging that it is a reality for many wives and children out there, one would hope that it's only representative of a small minority of family situations.

The problem I have with the quote is that it seems to be saying "all men have to fear from their female partners is their pride being hurt". And yet we know that female-on-male domestic violence is a real and likely highly underreported phenomenon, and that it can result in stalking, threats or even murder. Yes, this only happens to a very small percentage of men (perhaps at aroumd a 10 times smaller ratio than female victims of male partner violence - not sure on the exact statistics), but is it really the case that an equivalent majority of women fear dying at the hands of their male partners? Or anywhere near a majority at all? In which case, even as a generalisation, it's misleading.

what isnt misleading?what is exact? take your by line for a start

[David]

You mean my signature? I think the verb there ('back', as in to place a bet on) announces it as a statement of probability, not a universal rule. Atwood's quote (at least, devoid of further context) seems like a universal rule.

(Interestingly, I just did a bit of googling and it seems she didn't actually say it, but was more reporting anecdotal experiences of talking with a male friend and then a group of women in a poetry seminar: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Marg ... l_them..22)

[Wokko]

1 minute in Google:

KEY FACTS AND STATS

At least one in three victims of family violence is male

One male is a victim of domestic homicide every 10 days

Almost one in four young people are aware of their mum/stepmum hitting their dad/stepdad

Male and female victims of reported domestic assault receive very similar numbers and types of injuries

Men who have experienced partner violence are 2 to 3 times more likely than women to have never told anybody about it

Post-separation, similar proportions of men and women report experiencing physical violence including threats by their former spouse

http://www.oneinthree.com.au/overview/

[stui magpie]

1 minute in Google:

KEY FACTS AND STATS

At least one in three victims of family violence is male

One male is a victim of domestic homicide every 10 days

Almost one in four young people are aware of their mum/stepmum hitting their dad/stepdad

Male and female victims of reported domestic assault receive very similar numbers and types of injuries

Men who have experienced partner violence are 2 to 3 times more likely than women to have never told anybody about it

Post-separation, similar proportions of men and women report experiencing physical violence including threats by their former spouse

http://www.oneinthree.com.au/overview/

Well I gotta admit those numbers surprise the hell out of me.

I would have easily accepted 10%, 15% without much problem but 33% blows me away.

It does make me think though of a situation my son was in with a previous girlfriend. When they'd argue, she'd belt into him and dare him to hit her back, which he wouldn't. All he could do was block until he could manoeuvre past her to get out of the room and then go and break something.