I can't understand why every comment I make on this subject has been deleted.... so I won't make one. I will however, share a link from a National newspaper on the subject.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&sour ... 0657928067
Surely, this is a subject that can be discussed?
Sporting clubs nicknames
Moderator: bbmods
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Skids
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Here's the article.....
If the world is going to be a one percent better place by the Canterbury Rugby Union changing the name of their Super Rugby team, “The Crusaders”, I’m all for it.
Immediately following the horrific slaughter in Christchurch three weeks ago, 57 per cent of respondents to a newspaper poll believed the connection with the religious wars of a thousand years ago meant the nickname of the local rugby team should go.
New Zealand Rugby CEO Steve Tew says the “imagery” of the Crusaders is “no longer tenable”.
However, a survivor of the attack, Abdul, who was inside the Linwood Mosque is against change, arguing that any debate is pointless.
I wonder what Farid Ahmed, whose wife was slain during the shootings thinks about this comparatively, ridiculously trivial matter. Asked his thoughts on the murderer, he said, “He is my human brother. I cannot hate him.”
It’s a shame more Muslims, Christians, Scientologists, atheists and agnostics don’t think like him.
Instead, it seems that part of the solution to eradicating hate and insanity is to change the name of a rugby team.
It’s likely sponsors will have the final say. Cricket Australia reacted, or some say overreacted, to the outpouring of anger from sponsors and the public after the Cape Town controversy a year ago. The heavy punishments to those concerned were, in part, to appease sponsors. Understandable enough, but there has been some second guessing.
What occurred in Christchurch, and sandpapering a cricket ball are clearly in distant universes but in the macabre way the world works, both episodes put heavy pressure on the administrators of the respective sports
Whether or not Tew has a personal view, he would be very conscious that Canterbury’s decision must entail the best commercial outcome and his statements leave no dispute as to where he sits. Change or not, sensitivities have to be catered for and while it seems almost vulgar to need to debate the issue, given the revulsion of the catalyst, the facts are that life and Super Rugby keep happening.
There have been precedents in the USA of similar debates with names of sports teams, but it is a fair question to ask, once these things start, when do they stop?
I don’t recall anybody questioning Essendon AFL team about their nickname after the 2002 Bali bombings. Sadly, the reality appears to be that there’ll be a hate-incited bombing somewhere in our vicinity sooner or later. Will the AFL be asking the Bombers, founded 148 years ago, to change the name that loyal fans love. Ultimately, there won’t be any names safe from scrutiny.
I loved it when the Reds were Queensland, the Waratahs were New South Wales and the Crusaders were Canterbury, but then again I never got an A in marketing strategy
The world is what it is, and perhaps we need to spend less time analysing problems that aren’t really problems.
Video games and the like seem to peddle hatred and violence to our kids and apparently this industry is going gang busters. What we brainwash the young with is okay but offending imaginary sensitivities is not.
Rugby, and other sports, are a long way from perfect, but they enjoy a brotherhood and sisterhood among their participants that perhaps the wider world could learn from.
As for anyone in the Christian or Islam armies who did horrible things back in the twelfth century, let them rest in peace or otherwise, with their own consciences.
I don’t need to see horses with knights in the saddles running around before matches, but ultimately, we can concoct “imagery” into whatever we want it to be.
As a fan of Canterbury rugby for over forty years, all I can say is “Go the Crusaders.”
If the world is going to be a one percent better place by the Canterbury Rugby Union changing the name of their Super Rugby team, “The Crusaders”, I’m all for it.
Immediately following the horrific slaughter in Christchurch three weeks ago, 57 per cent of respondents to a newspaper poll believed the connection with the religious wars of a thousand years ago meant the nickname of the local rugby team should go.
New Zealand Rugby CEO Steve Tew says the “imagery” of the Crusaders is “no longer tenable”.
However, a survivor of the attack, Abdul, who was inside the Linwood Mosque is against change, arguing that any debate is pointless.
I wonder what Farid Ahmed, whose wife was slain during the shootings thinks about this comparatively, ridiculously trivial matter. Asked his thoughts on the murderer, he said, “He is my human brother. I cannot hate him.”
It’s a shame more Muslims, Christians, Scientologists, atheists and agnostics don’t think like him.
Instead, it seems that part of the solution to eradicating hate and insanity is to change the name of a rugby team.
It’s likely sponsors will have the final say. Cricket Australia reacted, or some say overreacted, to the outpouring of anger from sponsors and the public after the Cape Town controversy a year ago. The heavy punishments to those concerned were, in part, to appease sponsors. Understandable enough, but there has been some second guessing.
What occurred in Christchurch, and sandpapering a cricket ball are clearly in distant universes but in the macabre way the world works, both episodes put heavy pressure on the administrators of the respective sports
Whether or not Tew has a personal view, he would be very conscious that Canterbury’s decision must entail the best commercial outcome and his statements leave no dispute as to where he sits. Change or not, sensitivities have to be catered for and while it seems almost vulgar to need to debate the issue, given the revulsion of the catalyst, the facts are that life and Super Rugby keep happening.
There have been precedents in the USA of similar debates with names of sports teams, but it is a fair question to ask, once these things start, when do they stop?
I don’t recall anybody questioning Essendon AFL team about their nickname after the 2002 Bali bombings. Sadly, the reality appears to be that there’ll be a hate-incited bombing somewhere in our vicinity sooner or later. Will the AFL be asking the Bombers, founded 148 years ago, to change the name that loyal fans love. Ultimately, there won’t be any names safe from scrutiny.
I loved it when the Reds were Queensland, the Waratahs were New South Wales and the Crusaders were Canterbury, but then again I never got an A in marketing strategy
The world is what it is, and perhaps we need to spend less time analysing problems that aren’t really problems.
Video games and the like seem to peddle hatred and violence to our kids and apparently this industry is going gang busters. What we brainwash the young with is okay but offending imaginary sensitivities is not.
Rugby, and other sports, are a long way from perfect, but they enjoy a brotherhood and sisterhood among their participants that perhaps the wider world could learn from.
As for anyone in the Christian or Islam armies who did horrible things back in the twelfth century, let them rest in peace or otherwise, with their own consciences.
I don’t need to see horses with knights in the saddles running around before matches, but ultimately, we can concoct “imagery” into whatever we want it to be.
As a fan of Canterbury rugby for over forty years, all I can say is “Go the Crusaders.”
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Skids
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Looking further into this, and it's been a bit of a topic around the globe for a fair while. Sports teams name and mascots. Mostly regarding American Indians.
I've found that the Cleveland Indians, have kept their name, but changed their logo away from the Chief Wahoo one they had.
An interesting article on a legal finding regarding the Washington 'Redskins' from a couple of years ago...
The Washington Football Team Can Legally Keep Its Racist Name. But It Shouldn’t.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithson ... 180964039/
According to the Court, trademarks, as regulated by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), are protected free speech, even when they disparage a race of people. The decision came in a matter wholly unconnected to the football franchise, one involving an Oregon-based, Asian-American band that calls itself The Slants. The band had been denied a federally protected trademark for their chosen moniker because it was considered demeaning to Asian-Americans under the 1946 Lanham Act, which forbids the registration of trademarks that “may disparage” other peoples or their cultures
The Most Offensive Team Names in Sports: A Definitive Ranking
https://newrepublic.com/article/115106/ ... -and-logos
https://www.bet.com/news/sports/photos/ ... s-logo-nfl
I've found that the Cleveland Indians, have kept their name, but changed their logo away from the Chief Wahoo one they had.
An interesting article on a legal finding regarding the Washington 'Redskins' from a couple of years ago...
The Washington Football Team Can Legally Keep Its Racist Name. But It Shouldn’t.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithson ... 180964039/
According to the Court, trademarks, as regulated by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), are protected free speech, even when they disparage a race of people. The decision came in a matter wholly unconnected to the football franchise, one involving an Oregon-based, Asian-American band that calls itself The Slants. The band had been denied a federally protected trademark for their chosen moniker because it was considered demeaning to Asian-Americans under the 1946 Lanham Act, which forbids the registration of trademarks that “may disparage” other peoples or their cultures
The Most Offensive Team Names in Sports: A Definitive Ranking
https://newrepublic.com/article/115106/ ... -and-logos
https://www.bet.com/news/sports/photos/ ... s-logo-nfl
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David
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This is indeed a perfectly fine discussion topic, and thanks for broaching it in a reasonable manner. The Native American mascot thing is a very US-specific cultural battleground that I don't feel I have a great deal of authority to speak about, but it does seem to be something you really have to weigh up based on context, intent, how serious and widespread the calls for change actually are, and what the actual net cost/benefit of changing is.
Personally, I lean towards thinking that, as we didn't really hear complaints about this before the shooting, which indicates that nobody has been all that bothered by it in the past, this is something of a knee-jerk reaction and doesn't necessarily need to be capitulated to. But the club themselves may well decide down the track either way that they're no longer so happy with the 'Crusader' associations and voluntarily look for a new name, and ultimately it's their right to do so (and is hardly unprecedented in the world of sporting clubs).
Personally, I lean towards thinking that, as we didn't really hear complaints about this before the shooting, which indicates that nobody has been all that bothered by it in the past, this is something of a knee-jerk reaction and doesn't necessarily need to be capitulated to. But the club themselves may well decide down the track either way that they're no longer so happy with the 'Crusader' associations and voluntarily look for a new name, and ultimately it's their right to do so (and is hardly unprecedented in the world of sporting clubs).
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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stui magpie
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Sporting clubs do change nicknames, whether official or otherwise for a variety of reasons.
At one point in Essendons history they were referred to as "The blood stained n1ggers" as opposed to Sth Melbourne who were the blood stained angels, later shortened to the Bloods before they adopted the Swans.
What was appropriate at one point may become innapropriate at another point.
I personally don't think many people make a connection between the Crusaders as a nick name and the Crusades as an event, the way history is taught I doubt most would have the first clue, but if it is offensive to a particular group it's a small price to pay to change it, even if it achieves exactly 9/10 of jack shit.
At one point in Essendons history they were referred to as "The blood stained n1ggers" as opposed to Sth Melbourne who were the blood stained angels, later shortened to the Bloods before they adopted the Swans.
What was appropriate at one point may become innapropriate at another point.
I personally don't think many people make a connection between the Crusaders as a nick name and the Crusades as an event, the way history is taught I doubt most would have the first clue, but if it is offensive to a particular group it's a small price to pay to change it, even if it achieves exactly 9/10 of jack shit.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.