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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Because we have the greatest culture and team spirit of any club, which is what gets us into Grand finals, even without necessarily the best team. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Because we have the greatest culture and team spirit of any club, which is what gets us into Grand finals, even without necessarily the best team. |
I agree on the team spirit point but not the rest of it.
I don’t buy the not having the best team line. We have finished top of the ladder twice in my lifetime then gone out in straight sets. We were 44 up in 70 and lost. In 77 we went in as hot favourites and lost. In 79 we were an instant away from winning in a game everyone thought was anyone’s game. We were similarly pre game in 81, and favourites the second time we played Brisbane, as well as yesterday.We were a far better team than StKilda in 2010 but we were one lucky bounce away from losing. Would everyone have said that we were lucky to be there then if we had lost? I don’t know why we keep losing but not having the best team isn’t the answer, unless you are talking about the best team on the day and not overall.
As to our culture, there have to be questions asked in relation to the drugs issue. Pert raised the issue. Robinson raised the issue. We had the clenbuterol two. We had the Murray incident. Then we had the story that Maguire censored by not letting Barrett run with it on the footy show. Can you imagine the shitstorm the club would have faced in the finals if that allegation had come out then? If we lose some players over summer in trades that seem strange or under valued perhaps that will be the reason. Who knows whether Barrett was right or not, but the issue just won’t go away. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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I reckon if a fit Moore and Dunn, had played yesterday, both FIT, we would be celebrating today. Umpires screw us too, they helped Wet toast yesterday, we should lodge a complaint , but eddie wont, he never does,no matter how many times we get screwed by the maggots, even if it costs us a flag. As for all the other lost GFs, by close margins, 4 points, 1 point, 10 points, 9 points, 5 points, twice, six GFs by less than 2 goals, i guess its just sheer, absolute rotten bad luck, simple as that.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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Just rewatched the last five minutes; that was anyone's game, but we had a couple of chances to ice it; if Treloars kick gets over the top to JDG, game over; instead, McGovern intercept, Ryan with another WCE half mark, a block on Maynard, and game over
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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VicParkTragic
Joined: 17 Oct 2010
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It’s often because we make the grand final with a team they may not be the best but plays for the jumper and the supporters. 2002/03 teams were like that I’m sure. It’s not a negative in my opinion.
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Living in Geelong, barracking for the 'pies! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | ...
As to our culture, there have to be questions asked in relation to the drugs issue. Pert raised the issue. Robinson raised the issue. We had the clenbuterol two. We had the Murray incident. Then we had the story that Maguire censored by not letting Barrett run with it on the footy show. Can you imagine the shitstorm the club would have faced in the finals if that allegation had come out then? If we lose some players over summer in trades that seem strange or under valued perhaps that will be the reason. Who knows whether Barrett was right or not, but the issue just won’t go away. |
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1970
www.facebook.com/groups/knightsofabbotsford
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| K wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | ...
As to our culture, there have to be questions asked in relation to the drugs issue. Pert raised the issue. Robinson raised the issue. We had the clenbuterol two. We had the Murray incident. Then we had the story that Maguire censored by not letting Barrett run with it on the footy show. Can you imagine the shitstorm the club would have faced in the finals if that allegation had come out then? If we lose some players over summer in trades that seem strange or under valued perhaps that will be the reason. Who knows whether Barrett was right or not, but the issue just won’t go away. |
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I thought that it had become public. Hasn't it? |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| It may well have. I don't know. I just don't know what "it" is. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| K wrote: | | It may well have. I don't know. I just don't know what "it" is. |
If you don't know I may have mentioned something that I thought was already in the public record but actually isn't. I won't comment further. Barrett has avenues other than the footy show if he still wants to talk about it. |
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| Post subject: Re: Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand fi | |
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| Monco Matt wrote: | Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand finals?
We seem to lose them in every which way imaginable. By large margins, small margins, as the favourite, as the underdog, with a strong team, with a grunt team, against Vic clubs, against interstate clubs, with adversity or with everything in sync, by heading in with great form or falling in. No matter what the situation going in to the games we continue to lose these things. Even 2010 needed a lucky bounce to save us, we were on the ropes in that game too.
Yesterday we were the favoured team, just beat the reigning premier, had a close to full list (as close as any team can get really), were in form and confident, had home ground and home town advantage, majority crowd support, an 8-day break, a five goal head start in the game and still managed to find a way to lose. What club on the planet can achieve these types of results? If we cannot win with all that going for us when can we ever feel confident in a grand final again?
Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand finals?
Are there things going on inside the four wall of the club during GF week that affects every playing group throughout our history? Are we always over-confident, arrogant, cocky within, or do we just simply not have that ruthless attitude on game day? IDK. Any ideas? |
The answer sadly, is nothing.
Over 100 year of history there is NOTHING that is consistent and stable within the club, that if changed will make a difference.
Nothing - and in any attempting to apportion blame, we waste time and energy, in a futile attempt to explain the inexplicable.
Every Grand FInal loss has a rational explanation, and often BAD moments eg. HARMES OOB and RIOLI Block that turn the game which offer no insight on what could be changed.
We are asking a question that has no answer - but in our disappointment, seem to always wish to resolve it, after a GF loss.
We may as well ask our selves why are we so good at winning PF's, its an equally unenlightened and futile quest. |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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[quote="5 from the wing on debut"] | K wrote: |
As to our culture, there have to be questions asked in relation to the drugs issue. Pert raised the issue. Robinson raised the issue. We had the clenbuterol two. We had the Murray incident. Then we had the story that Maguire censored by not letting Barrett run with it on the footy show. Can you imagine the shitstorm the club would have faced in the finals if that allegation had come out then? If we lose some players over summer in trades that seem strange or under valued perhaps that will be the reason. Who knows whether Barrett was right or not, but the issue just won’t go away. |
I can tell you for a fact Collingwood has the least amount of drug users in the AFL, and no problem with culture right now. We're just used as a scapegoat (hence the constant leaks), because we sell more papers, and for political points (Sydney leaked the drug results a couple years ago, payback for Pert's comments, etc). There are other clubs who have way bigger "culture" problems than we do in regards to partying and drugs, but they NEVER make the papers, no one ever leaks the stories. Murray's ASADA investigation was meant to be PRIVATE, and Barrett can thank his lucky stars he has a "confidential source."
If there's a ladder for culture problems at clubs, we're right down the f***ing bottom. How the **** other clubs get away with their issues is beyond me, and the only explanation is because people hate Collingwood and love scoring political points against us. It's also not beyond the realm of possibility that some leaks come from WITHIN the club, to get a message to players. F***ing hell, just a few years ago Sydney made a mid-season pledge to stay off the party drugs for the rest of the year because they had a shot at the flag, but no one ever talks about that. Hawthorn, Geelong, Adelaide, Western Australia... it's all kept quiet.
So I am sick to f***ing death of hearing Collingwood has a culture problem. We don't. We're at the bottom of the Culture Problem Ladder, and in terms of other clubs and society in general, we're doing pretty f***ing well.
Don't get sucked in by the leaks. There's a Game of Thrones being played between clubs and the AFL, and Collingwood are the Starks, everyone's out to get us. |
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warburton lad
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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Ive written this before but I will precis my theory around a few of the losses.
At the end of 1969, a kid from Edenhope (our zone) went to Norwood instead of Collingwood. The kid was Phil Carman who was a prodigy and may have been the difference in the 1970 Grand Final.
In 1972, Carman was still at Norwood (he wouldn't come to Collingwood until 1975). Des Tuddenham left to go to Essendon as captain-coach and John Greening was cut down in his prime that awful day at Moorabbin.
The Pies did not make the Grand Final in 1972 (or 1973 when we gave up a six-goal lead in the Prelim to Richmond who then beat Carlton up).
Imagine Collingwood's half forward line in 1972 and 1973:
Greening, Carman, Tuddenham
Turns of fate probably cost us two, if not three flags right there.
Such is life.
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Firm in the belief that number 17 flag is only months away... |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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As to why Collingwood has more pressure than other clubs -- see the above post. The media, the AFL, other clubs, supporters, public, the world f***ing hate us and want us to lose. The media and public pressure on players is ten times what other clubs cop. Collingwood players are in a constant fish bowl, always being watched, and can't get away with stuff other clubs can get away with. They sneeze, it's front page news. That's a ton of pressure, and imagine the Grand Final.
As for West Coast, they had 2015 driving them all week. Most of our boys were playing finals for the first time! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Re: Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand fi | |
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| ThePieMind wrote: | | Monco Matt wrote: | Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand finals?
We seem to lose them in every which way imaginable. By large margins, small margins, as the favourite, as the underdog, with a strong team, with a grunt team, against Vic clubs, against interstate clubs, with adversity or with everything in sync, by heading in with great form or falling in. No matter what the situation going in to the games we continue to lose these things. Even 2010 needed a lucky bounce to save us, we were on the ropes in that game too.
Yesterday we were the favoured team, just beat the reigning premier, had a close to full list (as close as any team can get really), were in form and confident, had home ground and home town advantage, majority crowd support, an 8-day break, a five goal head start in the game and still managed to find a way to lose. What club on the planet can achieve these types of results? If we cannot win with all that going for us when can we ever feel confident in a grand final again?
Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand finals?
Are there things going on inside the four wall of the club during GF week that affects every playing group throughout our history? Are we always over-confident, arrogant, cocky within, or do we just simply not have that ruthless attitude on game day? IDK. Any ideas? |
The answer sadly, is nothing.
Over 100 year of history there is NOTHING that is consistent and stable within the club, that if changed will make a difference.
Nothing - and in any attempting to apportion blame, we waste time and energy, in a futile attempt to explain the inexplicable.
Every Grand FInal loss has a rational explanation, and often BAD moments eg. HARMES OOB and RIOLI Block that turn the game which offer no insight on what could be changed.
We are asking a question that has no answer - but in our disappointment, seem to always wish to resolve it, after a GF loss.
We may as well ask our selves why are we so good at winning PF's, its an equally unenlightened and futile quest. |
Exactly right. It's like bitching about roulette when 10 red numbers come up in a row. Surely, it should have been 5 red and 5 black? The fact is, what has happened previously has absolutely no bearing on the next spin of the dice or the roulette wheel. |
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