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Daks 
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne.
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[quote="Joel"]Now, go back to 2002, when McKee was rucking, he had 4 bags of 3 goals, 2 bags of 4 goals, and one 5 goal game. He also had three 2 goal games.
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Exactly what i said, mate. 
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© Daks 2006 |
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| Hehe sorry, I skipped over your post and replied to the others. Sorry mate. You're spot on. |
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d9 tank
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Location: Victoria
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Well you could be right Joel, he just hasn't had any really dominant forward games that stick out in my mind.
Hope your right though. |
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BBHS 
bbhs
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: Bellarine
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I'm not sure you need to define a player of great talent.
does Kouta, hird , pavlich have defined positions. no, they can play everywhere. I think that is Josh's strength, that we can throw him forward or ruck, or I think he plays his best when he can run around and do whatever he likes , cos he's a hard match up with his height and mobility. |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| To be able to do that, he has to better than anyone else in the team at doing that. You just can't have players running around doing what they want, unless they play a midfield/ruck role. |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| One thing we all agree on is that next year is time for him to step up. He really needs to make his mark on the competition and in a particular position. Not as a floater. |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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| d9 tank wrote: | | Well you could be right Joel, he just hasn't had any really dominant forward games that stick out in my mind. |
The truth is he hasn't had a dominant forward game. We shouldn't forget though that most of his games as a set forward were in 2002 at the age of 20. He can also kick 4 goals and not look as dominant as Rocca kicking 4 goals because he doesn't take 4 big marks to kick them like Rocca does.
The Josh I want to see in 2005 is a mature/experienced version of the one that intercepted that Montgomery handball, ran around him and slotted the winner from just inside 50 at AAMI. Forget a packmarking big forward and think tall running player with a footy brain. Use his height when he gets a small opponent but otherwise use what a tall opponent can't match. If the opposition want to put their most athletic tall defender on Josh then all the better for Tarrant or Rocca or Cameron Cloke.
The reality is that whatever role Josh plays he has to improve. He has some serious tricks but he is a long way from the star his pre draft reputation would have had us believe. Mind you, he was at least as good as Pavlich last year. I think Josh has serious talent but that means jack unless he can find a use for it. |
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Cakewalk
For a minute there I lost myself , I lost myself
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: Australia
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All Josh Fraser's "bag" of goals have been in games where we've thrashed the opposition and everyone's got in on the act(we were up by 60-odd points at 3/4 time versus Adelaide and he didn't kick one in the final quarter).
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"Are you an angry man? Are you envious? Do you get envious? I have competition in me. I want no one else to succeed. I hate most people. At times, I look at people and I see nothing worth liking. " |
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loch
Joined: 13 Mar 2001
Location: Nummi, Finland
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Coupla basics -
-Josh is better at throw-ins than at the centre bounce.
-Stretch is an excellent tap ruckman and can only improve, but he's no Sampson either.
-Josh snaps quite a few goals from throw-ins near the goals - it's his best party trick, but you're bound to miss a few.
- Josh is a forward
-Josh is also a clearance specialist.
-Keating doesn't tap it much; he pounds it forward to a midfield who commit to running forward of the ball. That's where we got killed.
-None of our rucks do this regularly. Perhaps only Tex is powerful enough at this stage to get away with it.
-Deft taps from Stretch will be our life-blood next season, like it or not, and we'll continue to start forward thrusts from behind or beside and close to the ruck contest rather than in front.
-Keep fit, Monty!! |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| MarkT wrote: | | d9 tank wrote: | | Well you could be right Joel, he just hasn't had any really dominant forward games that stick out in my mind. |
The truth is he hasn't had a dominant forward game. |
He was domminant in round 18 2002 against the Blues. Yes, it was a walkover, but he did dominate. He was fantastic in the 2002 Grand Final, out running and outsmarting Leppitch. Just shows how good he can be.
| Quote: | because we might be a bit top heavy down forward, then if doesn't assert himself as a player then there is a chance that he will be left out.
He is talented for sure, but he needs a position. |
Agreed. So many talented players have fallen by the wayside when not assigned a particular position. He could well get caught in no mans land in more ways then one. With Richards emerging, Fraser is well and truely under pressure. This may not turn out to be a bad thing, as healthy competition between the two could end up producing some fantastic footy from both. |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| Cakewalk wrote: | | All Josh Fraser's "bag" of goals have been in games where we've thrashed the opposition and everyone's got in on the act(we were up by 60-odd points at 3/4 time versus Adelaide and he didn't kick one in the final quarter). |
Just to use some facts in regards to that statement.
In 2001:
He kicked 4 against Freo at the start of the year, in a 17 point win. Not a drubbing here.
He kicked 4 against WC, when we did thrash them.
He also kicked 3 against the Hawks in a 55 point loss.
In 2002:
He kicked 4 goals in a good win against Melbourne.
3 in a loss to Fremantle.
4 in a 22 point win against Adelaide - not really a big win there.
3 in a good win over Richmond.
3 in the drubbing of Carlton.
3 in the Prelim V Adelaide, in a pressure cooker environment.
He then backed up and kicked 3 in the GF against Brisbane. Pretty good effort I reckon.
2003:
He kicked 3 in a loss against Hawthorn.
And 3 in games against Adelaide and Freo.
2004:
Kicked 3 in a good win over the Dogs.
So, as you can see, he has kicked games in losses as well as wins. The thing is, it doesn't matter when he kicked goals, as long as he kicks them.
So I'm not sure how you can use it against him. |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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| That's all interesting and makes your point Joel. IMO though if Josh is to be a serious forward there should be a bag of 6 to 8 in there. He'd need to kick the odd 6+ bag and snag a 9 somewhere along the line in the next year and a half to show he will be a top forward. He just has to start dominating games. |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| I agree, and if you were to go back to a thread I started a month or two ago, you'd see that I commented that he needed to step up. |
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d9 tank
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Location: Victoria
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Not sure how much those stats really say about him as a forward with a direct opponent, but we will see.
As a 3rd-4th tall forward he needs to kick minimum of 40 goals in 2005. |
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snow24
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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| Josh's big problem is his complete inability to bulk up. He's been at Collingwood 5 years and is still pretty much the same Celery Stick he was when he got here. If you want to be a star foward or a star ruckman you need MUSCLE. He doesn't have to be Ronnie Coleman he just has to get himself at the very least to Jeff White, Michael Gardner size. |
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