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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Or his ex can just be brave like Nadia bartel
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Sicks Bux wrote: | | David wrote: | | Sicks Bux wrote: | Remember when Karl played the white knight by wearing the same suit everyday to make a point about how unfairly women get treated in the media? Then he dumps his wife to get with a much younger woman because he was having a midlife crisis. What a fu#cking cliche.  |
Well ... I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the latter (see our other recent thread on relationships with age differences!). But yes, I agree with your broader suggestion that the guy's a phoney. |
He makes 'a stand' about women being judged more harshly than men for their appearance and then leaves his middle aged wife for a much younger, conventionally attractive woman. He's a hypocrite. |
I didn’t expect to be going into bat for Karl Stefanovic (), but let’s back up a bit. His position on gender double standards when it comes to physical attractiveness, and how shit that can be for girls and women, sounds to me like a pretty elementary observation, and pretty much undeniable. One would hope that most of us can acknowledge that. If he’d said older men who date younger women are creeps, then he’d be a hypocrite, sure. But – at least the way you’re characterising it – that doesn’t sound anything like what he was saying. We can debate his motivations, sure, and I suspect we share similar instincts on where such platitudes may be coming from. But, in my view, his personal life has nothing to do with that.
Does it really follow that men who acknowledge gendered disadvantages and toxic beauty standards are hypocrites if they themselves hook up with conventionally attractive women? No, of course not. You can’t really control who you’re attracted to, and most people don’t voluntarily get into relationships with people who are not physically attractive to them on some level. So no, I don’t think men who care about gender equality are obligated to date non-conventionally hot women, and neither do I feel that men with hot younger partners should feel obliged to be misogynists. Or maybe you feel that men shouldn't be with younger women full stop?
If your issue here has more to do with him leaving his wife, I’d suggest that neither of us has a sufficient window into that relationship to judge whether he should have stayed or not. Many people stay together who shouldn’t, and they’re not doing themselves, one another or anybody else any favours. Other people fall head over heels in love with someone new and end up breaking the heart of a devoted long-term partner. There are many such possibilities in these scenarios, and I tend to find it prudent to not judge such choices from the cheap seats, certainly not when I know little about the private lives of the people involved.
Ultimately, I think the broader issue here is that it’s possible, and indeed not something to be ashamed of, to criticise bad things in society while not being personally pure. It’s okay to fight back against society’s treatment of overweight people if you’re physically fit, and it’s okay to oppose racism if you’re white. Hypocrisy is more like lobbying for animal welfare while eating meat from time to time, but even then, is the better option to eat meat and never say or do anything about animal cruelty? Should you not care about climate change if you own an air conditioner? I think we sometimes need to ask ourselves what purpose accusations of hypocrisy are actually serving, and whether it ends up more often than not being an exercise in shooting the messenger.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:09 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Sicks Bux 
Hal 2003-2019
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome
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I don't get the reference.
Too late in the day for me to go down this rabbithole now. I'll see how I go tomorrow. |
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Sicks Bux
Hal 2003-2019
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome
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Yeah, nah. I find his attempt to seem woke by grandstanding about women being oppressed by toxic beauty standards and then dumping his wife for a much younger conventionally attractive woman beyond the pale.
"But, in my view, his personal life has nothing to do with that."
I believe if you're going to take principled public stance on something then it's probably a good idea to be living up to it in your own life. Otherwise people are understandably going to have an issue with the messenger.
"I think we sometimes need to ask ourselves what purpose accusations of hypocrisy are actually serving, and whether it ends up more often than not being an exercise in shooting the messenger."
I don't know, I thought it was fair enough when Julia Gillard said she wasn't going to be lectured by Tony Abbott about misogyny.
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The beatings will continue until moral improves. |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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What he did on TV was extremely well done and highlighted an issue that is unfair and dumb, however I don't think it was mentioned that it is almost solely women that will make disparaging comments about another woman's attire so not really a sexist or misogynist issue. The fact he wanted to sleep with a younger, more attractive woman does not alter his point at all, IMO.
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kill for collingwood! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Sicks Bux wrote: | | Yeah, nah. I find his attempt to seem woke by grandstanding about women being oppressed by toxic beauty standards and then dumping his wife for a much younger conventionally attractive woman beyond the pale. |
But you still haven't explained exactly what it is that makes that so hypocritical. Is it always playing into oppressive beauty standards for men to leave their wives (no matter what personal reasons they may have or what state the former relationship may be in) for younger women, or only if the younger woman is a "10"?
| Sicks Bux wrote: | "I think we sometimes need to ask ourselves what purpose accusations of hypocrisy are actually serving, and whether it ends up more often than not being an exercise in shooting the messenger."
I don't know, I thought it was fair enough when Julia Gillard said she wasn't going to be lectured by Tony Abbott about misogyny. |
It was a good political response to a dirty political tactic from Abbott (trying to use a man's private text messages to position him as unfit to be speaker of the house). But even that serves as a good example of what I'm saying – because if the discussion of whether Peter Slipper's supposed misogyny made him ineligible to serve was a) a relevant one and b) being conducted in anything resembling good faith, then Gillard's accusation of hypocrisy against Abbott would have been nothing more than an ad hominem attack and deflection from the topic at hand. And, indeed, that was kind of the purpose of the speech in the first place, because Labor hadn't exactly covered itself in glory throughout that episode by poaching Slipper, and showing up Abbott as a massive hypocrite (which he was, of course) shifted focus a little from their own mounting scandals. It was only later that the speech got recontextualised as some epic girl-power moment (which I honestly find kind of hard to swallow, given how little I think of Question Time theatrics).
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Sicks Bux
Hal 2003-2019
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome
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"But you still haven't explained exactly what it is that makes that so hypocritical. Is it always playing into oppressive beauty standards for men to leave their wives (no matter what personal reasons they may have or what state the former relationship may be in) for younger women, or only if the younger woman is a "10"?
Because he denounced oppressive beauty standards whilst appearing to apply them himself.
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The beatings will continue until moral improves. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Or his ex can just be brave like Nadia bartel |
whats that supposed to mean?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Sicks Bux wrote: | | David wrote: | | Sicks Bux wrote: | | Remember when Karl played the white knight by wearing the same suit everyday to make a point about how unfairly women get treated in the media? Then he dumps his wife to get with a much younger woman because he was having a midlife crisis. What a fu#cking cliche. |
Well ... I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the latter (see our other recent thread on relationships with age differences!). But yes, I agree with your broader suggestion that the guy's a phoney. |
He makes 'a stand' about women being judged more harshly than men for their appearance and then leaves his middle aged wife for a much younger, conventionally attractive woman. He's a hypocrite. |
I didn’t expect to be going into bat for Karl Stefanovic (), but let’s back up a bit. His position on gender double standards when it comes to physical attractiveness, and how shit that can be for girls and women, sounds to me like a pretty elementary observation, and pretty much undeniable. One would hope that most of us can acknowledge that. If he’d said older men who date younger women are creeps, then he’d be a hypocrite, sure. But – at least the way you’re characterising it – that doesn’t sound anything like what he was saying. We can debate his motivations, sure, and I suspect we share similar instincts on where such platitudes may be coming from. But, in my view, his personal life has nothing to do with that.
Does it really follow that men who acknowledge gendered disadvantages and toxic beauty standards are hypocrites if they themselves hook up with conventionally attractive women? No, of course not. You can’t really control who you’re attracted to, and most people don’t voluntarily get into relationships with people who are not physically attractive to them on some level. So no, I don’t think men who care about gender equality are obligated to date non-conventionally hot women, and neither do I feel that men with hot younger partners should feel obliged to be misogynists. Or maybe you feel that men shouldn't be with younger women full stop?
If your issue here has more to do with him leaving his wife, I’d suggest that neither of us has a sufficient window into that relationship to judge whether he should have stayed or not. Many people stay together who shouldn’t, and they’re not doing themselves, one another or anybody else any favours. Other people fall head over heels in love with someone new and end up breaking the heart of a devoted long-term partner. There are many such possibilities in these scenarios, and I tend to find it prudent to not judge such choices from the cheap seats, certainly not when I know little about the private lives of the people involved.
Ultimately, I think the broader issue here is that it’s possible, and indeed not something to be ashamed of, to criticise bad things in society while not being personally pure. It’s okay to fight back against society’s treatment of overweight people if you’re physically fit, and it’s okay to oppose racism if you’re white. Hypocrisy is more like lobbying for animal welfare while eating meat from time to time, but even then, is the better option to eat meat and never say or do anything about animal cruelty? Should you not care about climate change if you own an air conditioner? I think we sometimes need to ask ourselves what purpose accusations of hypocrisy are actually serving, and whether it ends up more often than not being an exercise in shooting the messenger. |
i was with you until that!
as for the other, the wifes looks on a scale of 1 to 10 when it comes to rich guys generally matches the guys bank account balance. and they seem to trade them up likes they do their company shares!
there are exceptions of course, Paul Newman and Sean Connery come to mind!
mind you its not just catching the pretty bird, its being able to maintain it for her!! plastic fantastic! card and skin!
yes im jaded!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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Dopey Dan is creating a society where Victorians are turning on each other.
I read a story today that a mother and her six year old child were abused when out for a walk because the child wasn't wearing a face mask.
Clearly people need to get over themselves and stop trying to be judge, jury and executioner but more importantly, learn the $£$%^%%$ rules you are trying to abuse people for not following! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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How exactly is Andrews responsible for that? I think it's pretty clear that the mask policy was necessary, and it's not like he invented narcs. You're always going to get busybodies finding ways to lord it over others in any society.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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To be fair, it seems there are more dickheads with delusions of intelligence in Victoria than previously anticipated.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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Its because he constantly comes out attacking Victorians at his press conferences, he is taking aim at people and it's washing off on society who get angry watching it and they take it out on innocent people.
Plus he pushes hard to dob in your neighbours. |
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Sicks Bux
Hal 2003-2019
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome
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Lock them up!
Lock them up!
Lock them up!
I hope you've been wearing your mask, Eddie.
_________________
The beatings will continue until moral improves. |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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Been wearing my balaclava out, yes!
Actually wore one of those cheap Chinese masks Dan is trying to get us all to buy tonight, didn’t even survive a trip to get dinner before the straps snapped. |
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